Untranslatable Words - Page 17

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

I see voppers all the time.

well... obvious exceptions aside, i meant...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

Not fluently, no. And I'm not Japanese. I was a linguistics major and I had three semesters in college (a long time ago) and I watch a lot of anime in Japanese (generally with subtitles). I used to be able to handle ordering food in a Japanese restaurant (and once really startled a waiter whose attention I had been unsuccessfully trying to get by singing out "sumimasen!" [excuse me] in apparently a perfect accent-- he was obviously looking around for a Japanese girl), but most of my Japanese skill has been swamped by trying to learn Chinese from our daughters. I've been trying to build it up again, though, as I'm working on a manga story set in Japan and I'd like to get the culture right.

my golly, i am in rather in awe of you right now. not that it's completely unheard of for an occidental to speak fluent japanese (*and* chinese o_O), as i said i have a girlfriend who does ; but then, i'm rather in awe of her as well... that's amazing.

nekokami · 05-28-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

my golly, i am in rather in awe of you right now. not that it's completely unheard of for an occidental to speak fluent japanese (*and* chinese o_O), as i said i have a girlfriend who does ; but then, i'm rather in awe of her as well... that's amazing.

No, no-- I'm not fluent in either of these languages!

Well, Ok, I'm sort of fluent in Chinese, but only when talking to kids. I can say things like, "What do you want to eat?" "We don't have that." "Do you need to use the bathroom?" "Really?" "Have you brushed your teeth?" "Don't touch that!" and "Go to bed!" Chinese adults crack up (start laughing) whenever I say these things, especially women. Apparently I've got the "mom" intonation down perfect. I can't carry on a normal conversation with an adult, though.

As far as Japanese goes, I know "about" Japanese more than I "know" Japanese, if you get my meaning.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

No, no-- I'm not fluent in either of these languages!

Well, Ok, I'm sort of fluent in Chinese, but only when talking to kids. I can say things like, "What do you want to eat?" "We don't have that." "Do you need to use the bathroom?" "Really?" "Have you brushed your teeth?" "Don't touch that!" and "Go to bed!" Chinese adults crack up (start laughing) whenever I say these things, especially women. Apparently I've got the "mom" intonation down perfect. I can't carry on a normal conversation with an adult, though.

As far as Japanese goes, I know "about" Japanese more than I "know" Japanese, if you get my meaning.

now i'm imagining you scolding children ("get that out of your mouth !") in chinese (ironically, those are about the same expressions my cats understand in french). hilarious. still worthy of awe.

slayda · 05-28-2008, 01:52 PM

I took some Russian, long ago, but I remember that the instructor said that their familiar form of "you" was only used with you spouse, your child, your dog, or your God.

Spanish, on the other hand, will sometimes use the familiar form as an insult.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 01:54 PM

my heavens. that seems rather extreme.

nekokami · 05-28-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

I took some Russian, long ago, but I remember that the instructor said that their familiar form of "you" was only used with you spouse, your child, your dog, or your God.

Spanish, on the other hand, will sometimes use the familiar form as an insult.

Isn't that like in French, though, where "tu," apart from its use with close friends/family, is used for children and dogs (so our teacher told us)?

And slaves, apparently, back in the old South.

Taylor514ce · 05-28-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

...your dog, or your God...

Queue the obligatory joke about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac: the poor guy stays awake all night wondering if there really is a Dog.

nekokami · 05-28-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

Queue the obligatory joke about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac: the poor guy stays awake all night wondering if there really is a Dog.

Badump-bump <rimshot> "Thank you, folks, I'll be hear 'till Thursday. Try the eggplant!"

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 02:43 PM

hee. i like that joke. but i'm easy.

slayda · 05-28-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

Isn't that like in French, though, where "tu," apart from its use with close friends/family, is used for children and dogs (so our teacher told us)?

And slaves, apparently, back in the old South.

Unfortunately, what French I know has been picked up through reading, usually "expletive deleted" words. However sometimes the written French is enough like Spanish to figure out some of the words and thereby some of the context. Just enough to make me insanely curious about the rest. And I would never pretend to properly pronounce any of them.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 04:01 PM

it's true, french and spanish have a lot in common ; i don't speak spanish but i can figure a lot of it out.

"tu" is not used as an insult, although obviously if you are being insulting you won't use the respectful "vous"*. it's a familiar term, for friends, family, dogs... but french culture is a lot more relaxed than some others, apparently ; i say "tu" to someone around my age, even if i don't know them, especially if it's in a social context (like at a party).

on the other hand, usually when i'm in a new work situation, even though colleagues usually say "on peut se tutoyer" ("we can call each other 'tu'"), at the beginning i have the reflex of saying "vous" to everyone ; it's a representation of the distance between us, because after all just because we're colleagues doesn't mean we're friends. so i don't necessarily have the easy "tu".

* although you can actually be really cutting, in a sneaky way, while remaining apparently polite. it's an art.

Patricia · 05-28-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

"tu" is not used as an insult, although obviously if you are being insulting you won't use the respectful "vous"

I have heard people say, 'ta mère ...' in a certain tone of voice.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

I have heard people say, 'ta mère ...' in a certain tone of voice.

hee, right... well that *is* an insult. it exists in many many forms, too ; the one i personally find most amusing is "ta mère en short devant le monoprix." (snicker). but you won't understand *why* it's insulting, if you don't realize that the *full* expression is "n*que ta mère." which is very very very rude.

more recent variation : ta race.

yvanleterrible · 05-28-2008, 08:47 PM

Just like, "Your mother wears army boots".

zelda_pinwheel · 05-28-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Just like, "Your mother wears army boots".

i'm pretty sure the french version is worse, unless in english there's an implied f*ck at the beginning of the sentence as well...

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05-28-2008, 01:52 PM	#244
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	I took some Russian, long ago, but I remember that the instructor said that their familiar form of "you" was only used with you spouse, your child, your dog, or your God. Spanish, on the other hand, will sometimes use the familiar form as an insult.

05-28-2008, 01:54 PM	#245
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	my heavens. that seems rather extreme.

05-28-2008, 02:43 PM	#249
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	hee. i like that joke. but i'm easy.

05-28-2008, 04:01 PM	#251
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	it's true, french and spanish have a lot in common ; i don't speak spanish but i can figure a lot of it out. "tu" is not used as an insult, although obviously if you are being insulting you won't use the respectful "vous". it's a familiar term, for friends, family, dogs... but french culture is a lot more relaxed than some others, apparently ; i say "tu" to someone around my age, even if i don't know them, especially if it's in a social context (like at a party). on the other hand, usually when i'm in a new work situation, even though colleagues usually say "on peut se tutoyer" ("we can call each other 'tu'"), at the beginning i have the reflex of saying "vous" to everyone ; it's a representation of the distance between us, because after all just because we're colleagues doesn't mean we're friends. so i don't necessarily have the easy "tu". although you can actually be really cutting, in a sneaky way, while remaining apparently polite. it's an art.

05-28-2008, 08:47 PM	#254
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Just like, "Your mother wears army boots".

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