Boox (M92) developer community?

[docidocus]

Sure, but keeping a good understanding with all parties is the better option in my opinion. Of course the FSF may enforce the GPL, but as I said, that should be the last resort.

Anyway, I think it may help if as many people as possible request the code, so they see that there are people who care.

[painkiller]

From what I know people cared (not many of course) about the sources various times in the past.. of course they didn't receive anything. My strong suggestion was said just because this is a repeated behavior and not something new happened recently. People talked about Linux and open firmwares of the M96 way back when it already had to be released.

Maybe there are other issues that stops them from releasing the source (more legal than technical).. maybe they are using a variant of the GPL that doesn't force them to redistribute the code?

[docidocus]

Originally Posted by painkiller

From what I know people cared (not many of course) about the sources various times in the past.. of course they didn't receive anything.

Well, you're right. But I always think there may be a friendly solution.

Originally Posted by painkiller

My strong suggestion was said just because this is a repeated behavior and not something new happened recently. People talked about Linux and open firmwares of the M96 way back when it already had to be released.

Again you're right, but in the past they gave in at last. They (Onyx) never cared much about their community, though.

Originally Posted by painkiller

Maybe there are other issues that stops them from releasing the source (more legal than technical).. maybe they are using a variant of the GPL that doesn't force them to redistribute the code?

Definitely not. Although I'm not a lawyer, I know they cannot just re-license the Linux kernel (for example) and circumvent the duty to disclose the code. As they did not add modules, but implemented patches to the kernel, they created a work based on GPL'ed sources. Even if they made their additions as modules, they would have to release the code of the kernel itself (but the module could stay as a binary blob)...

They used the Linux kernel, they used several open source libraries and programs, they made changes to them, but they never released the code. I don't know of any precedents in China, but Germany is known for enforcing the GPL. If we really would resort to bringing the FSF into this, though, I'm sure Onyx would not be resistant for long. They are a rather small company and surely don't want to be cut off from the markets in Europe and the US, where the GPL is upheld. This means, even if the FSF could not reach Onyx directly, they could hold ereader-store.de liable, as they worked also on the code. This way, Onyx' main retailer in Central Europe could be forced to stop selling these devices.

Anyway, I would prefer a friendly solution.

[painkiller]

Yeah a friendly solution would be better, but if they keep ignoring the emails then it's like trying to be friendly with a wall :/

[docidocus]

Originally Posted by painkiller

Yeah a friendly solution would be better, but if they keep ignoring the emails then it's like trying to be friendly with a wall :/

Don't shatter my dreams .

As for me, I will wait another few days for an answer from Onyx and ereader-store.de. I will try to get in contact with them some more times, until I will reach out to the FSF and gpl-violations.org. Let's see what can be done!

[painkiller]

fingers crossed!

[Randy11]

Originally Posted by docidocus

This means, even if the FSF could not reach Onyx directly, they could hold ereader-store.de liable, as they worked also on the code. This way, Onyx' main retailer in Central Europe could be forced to stop selling these devices.

Anyway, I would prefer a friendly solution.

But the M92 is stopped, no available at ereader-store.de. So, 'stop selling' is not a valid solution, I presume. May be if we take care of the M92 sold in a period inferior at 2 years, the 2 years of warranty/guarantee, we can ask the code for this devices.

[franzli]

Well, but they do still want to sell the n96 and their other readers i presume...

[Randy11]

Originally Posted by franzli

Well, but they do still want to sell the n96 and their other readers i presume...

Yes. I am not a specialist of licenses, so for me there is a difference between the M92 which is a full Linux device and the others that are Android. For each Android device, there is a license to pay at Google. It's seems more easy to obtain the Linux's sources than the Android.

But the team for the development of M92 could be not the same than the present team. I hope that the archives for the M92 were kept... or that they could use them ...

[Wong McGregor]

Originally Posted by docidocus

Why I drivel so much about this instead going off, working on Open Boox? Well, there are actually a couple of reasons. First of all, I do not want to build an alternative firmware. What I want to do is continue developing the official firmware with a free and open community. As a second reason, I do not own the Boox60 device. And lastly, the development stopped three years ago. What about PocketBook free? Just the same. They are even longer inactive.

I hope I could make my points clear in this rather long post. If there is anyone interested, please raise hands! I am looking forward to your replies.

I am definitely still interested in this device which I use with Obuntu. But, like the others, I'm not a developer. Having Linux on such a device means that it has a serious operating system and so can run serious applications. By comparison, with the M96 one has to use something like Linux Deploy.

You seem to understand the history of the device and of Onyx in general. I get the impression that Seaniko7 put an enormous amount of work into Obuntu and, if you read his comments in this thread, was rather constrained in terms of the options open to him. Given how little interest there is likely to be in this device, as people do seem to move on rather quickly, I would have thought that your best option would be to continue the development of Obuntu.

Perhaps, if you have access to the sources, much as Seaniko7 did, you will be able to do that. If you look at the Obuntu images thread, you will see that it seems to do most things just fine. I've had problems, which are documented in that thread, but they seem to be difficulties arising during installation rather than fundamental problems with Obuntu itself. Given that, I can't imagine too much difficulty in using a VNC app to use it as a monitor, for instance. Like Seaniko, you are likely to be largely on your own and this would seem to be the path of least effort.

[docidocus]

I'm sorry for my late responses.

Originally Posted by Randy11

But the M92 is stopped, no available at ereader-store.de. So, 'stop selling' is not a valid solution, I presume. May be if we take care of the M92 sold in a period inferior at 2 years, the 2 years of warranty/guarantee, we can ask the code for this devices.

Well, as franzli already said, they infringe the GPL not only with this single device. As I already said, I'm no lawyer, but I think they have to keep the code available as long as there are people who use the software. And there are, of course...

Originally Posted by Randy11

It's seems more easy to obtain the Linux's sources than the Android.

There shouldn't be any difference, as Android is also Linux-based. Anyway, Google might force closed source software on Android, but I don't know.

Originally Posted by Randy11

But the team for the development of M92 could be not the same than the present team. I hope that the archives for the M92 were kept... or that they could use them ...

They are legally required to keep the code available.

Now to Wong McGregor's post.

I already thought of continuing the work on Obuntu as a way to contribute here, but there is a single problem: I couldn't reach Seaniko7. I tried to contact him here on the forum and over his email address given at Github, but he didn't respond. I didn't find another way, so if you know how to reach him, please tell me. Also I couldn't try out Obuntu lately, as all the links I found on the forums are dead. Maybe you could re-upload the files somewhere, so Obuntu can at least be used by others? That would be great!

Originally Posted by Wong McGregor

Like Seaniko, you are likely to be largely on your own and this would seem to be the path of least effort.

Sadly, this seems to be right. There were quite a few developers around here in the better days, but they seems to be gone. I'm too not a kernel developer, but rather worked on user level software till now - but if the code is released, we have at least the opportunity to try things out and maybe even recover a device bricked by this . At last, one is never too old to learn - why not begin with kernel development? So I think there is no reason to give up before we even begun. Furthermore, as there is interest, there will be people to discuss things with. Nothing more is needed for a thriving community .

A short update regarding my requests: I just wrote emails to Onyx and ereader-store.de, asking them again to give me the code, because they didn't answer till now. The people of ereader-store.de may be on summer holidays, but there is not out-of-office message. Let's see what happens...

[Wong McGregor]

Originally Posted by docidocus

I already thought of continuing the work on Obuntu as a way to contribute here, but there is a single problem: I couldn't reach Seaniko7. I tried to contact him here on the forum and over his email address given at Github, but he didn't respond. I didn't find another way, so if you know how to reach him, please tell me.

Yes - that's been a problem for a long while. If you go to his mobileread account, it provides a guide as to recent activity etc. According to that, he might have visited in the last month or so but, yes, he hasn't posted in ages.

But his intentions don't seem to have been very different from yours, so I don't know that he would object at all:

Originally Posted by seaniko7

Hi guys.

Sorry for no response recently.

Project might seem to be abandoned, but it is not. I intend to work on it further, even sacrificing other ones I'm involved in. However for the time being, I need to get around with some aspects of my personal life ( work + evening studies round-the-clock ).

As soon as I get some chunks of free time, I will work on making project documentation, so others can be involved in development and improvement, which I believe can bring huge momentum and help to move towards next targets ( next Onyx devices ). Any suggestions are welcome !

IMO eReaders + Linux, as others mentioned is the right combination, because it allows one to fully embrace capabilities of these devices, even the "slower" ones.

I hope ONYX will show support for our intention of developing additional OS alongside their own, which might bring outstanding possibilities for end user in future.

Again, sorry for being so silent recently and please for little patience.

Thanks

Ironically, I think that might have been about his last post here.

Originally Posted by docidocus

Also I couldn't try out Obuntu lately, as all the links I found on the forums are dead. Maybe you could re-upload the files somewhere, so Obuntu can at least be used by others? That would be great!

I've just revived the images thread. Most of the links are dead but there are some still alive. I'll try to find the others and post them.

Originally Posted by Wong McGregor

This is a response to a problem raised in another thread:

[docidocus]

Back to my requests for the source code: the ereader-store.de finally answered my emails, but all they said was, that they did their modifications for Onyx and don't have the code anymore. This means, they gave all their rights and therewith also their duties back to the Chinese. Sadly. Anyway, they recommended contacting the lead developer directly, but he didn't answer yet. So there's nothing left to do but waiting.

[jlark]

Originally Posted by docidocus

So there's nothing left to do but waiting.

Or head over to gpl-violations.org and report them. There's obviously not gonna be an answer from Onyx, their attitude towards the community is, well, severely lacking, and they obviously couldn't care less about the GPL.

I was gonna report them myself but decided to wait for the summer to be over, so everyone comes back from their vacations.

I own the Max and have contacted both Onyx and ereader-store, to no avail. I specifically bought this very expensive device for its promising hackability, and this is not funny. (At the time I also suggested to Onyx to create a bug tracker, to which they responded by creating a read-only public trello board. D'oh.) :)

I suggest we create a new thread for dealing with the GPL violations, for all devices, where we can coordinate our efforts and then report them. (There's another thread here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=255084)

@docidocus, you seem rather energetic. :) Would you like to take care of the formalities?

[docidocus]

I didn't receive any answer yet neither from their lead developer nor from Onyx itself. Now, just as I decided to write them another email, I saw your post and changed my mind.

Originally Posted by jlark

I specifically bought this very expensive device for its promising hackability, and this is not funny.

I can't agree more.

Originally Posted by jlark

@docidocus, you seem rather energetic. Would you like to take care of the formalities?

You're welcome . Anyway, I think too we should now go this way. I hope I can find enough time to bring this to an end, but for now I don't have a free minute. So this would at least wait till the weekend... Anyway, I'll open a new thread for all these GPL issues.