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Old 04-17-2011, 08:43 PM   #241
HansTWN
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Originally Posted by avantman42 View Post
I have some PDFs that do something similar. Some of the PDFs I've bought from Drive Thru RPG have my name and order number on the bottom of every page.

I've seen it referred to as "social DRM", and it's the one form of DRM (if it can be called a form of DRM) that I've ever seen that I have absolutely no objection to whatsoever. It has no impact on my ability to use the file that I have bought, but it does make it easier for the publisher to find out where illegal copies originated from, allowing them to take whatever action they feel appropriate.
That would seem the most reasonable way, as I have suggested previously. But they should also have some marks invisible to the user. The visible marks to let people know that they are watermarked, the invisible ones to make removal more difficult. Files can be shared -- but the user must make sure he hands them to responsible friends only.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:00 PM   #242
Elfwreck
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Not always.

I remember when TSR,
Okay, you could've stopped here.

I remember when the 'net was fairly new, and TSR sent out C&D's to every online RPG FTP site they could find, demanding that all their content be removed, and nobody could post D&D adventures or character classes or anything like that because it infringed on their trademarks.

Had a friend who managed UCB's gaming FTP sites... he sent them back a nasty letter saying "we don't put content related to your crappy RPG on our servers. This is for Starfire, Ars Magica, Traveller, and White Wolf materials; nobody at Berkeley cares what you do because nobody here thinks D&D is worth playing." (Okay, that's not an actual quote, and the paraphrase is probably a bit stronger than what was really sent--but he was able to send them a letter saying "take your C&D and shove it; nobody here plays your games.")

TSR's attempts to control players' use of their materials is probably a big part of why they got bought out. (And yeah, they announced that people were supposed to each buy a copy... but they knew how it actually worked in play.)
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:16 PM   #243
Worldwalker
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TSR's attempts to control players' use of their materials is probably a big part of why they got bought out.
Well ... there was a lot of corporate infighting, business decisions being made by people who had the business skills of a squid, stock battles (not to mention the whole Buck Rogers thing), and general-purpose piddling contests going on in Lake Geneva. They got bought out for a lot of reasons, but "heading for bankruptcy with JATO assist" was probably pretty high on the list. It amazed me at the time how they hung on as long as they did, despite apparent endless efforts to prove that not only did game design skills and business skills not coexist in the same person, but they did not even coexist in people who could remain on speaking terms.

But in the end, their demise wasn't because they were unable to influence the market the way they wanted it -- that is, to put an end to creativity on the part of their players -- it was that they were. They successfully drove away the people who would give them money, and continue giving them money for years, and replaced them with short-term faddists who would be content to read the boxed text to their players. Then when those people grew up (or started playing M:tG) TSR wondered where their customers were.

That has, I think, a cautionary message for those insisting on DRM: Their worst nightmare should not be that they fail, but that they succeed. If they do, they, like TSR, will quietly starve in the corner while the people who would have been their customers become someone else's customers instead. TSR learned that if you jerk the players around too much, they'll go play something else. Publishers are going to learn, and learn to the detriment of the market, that if they jerk the readers around too much, they'll go do something else. Reading is not the only game in town -- it's competing with TV, video games, movies, and a host of other things. Make it too inconvenient, and people will decide it's not worth their time, and customers are lost forever. Then there's nobody left to pay the authors, and we bookaholics lose.
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Old 04-18-2011, 12:16 AM   #244
taosaur
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I'm late to the party, I know, but I haven't seen my two cents lying around elsewhere, so I thought I'd throw it in.

My objections to DRM are less on the idealistic grounds of rights and ownership and more from the pragmatic standpoint of how it impacts the improvement of ebooks as a medium and the software and devices for distributing and using them, and the consequent impact on publishing and literature. In my experience, DRM on any digital content devalues it in the obvious way of restricting its use, but also has an opportunity cost in terms of where development resources are going. We end with software written by IP lawyers, focused on removing functionality rather than adding value to the user experience.

It also establishes an antagonistic relationship between the publisher (and by extension, the authors) and the readership, particularly the most informed and vocal segment of the readership, which is no good for anyone.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:13 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldwalker View Post

That has, I think, a cautionary message for those insisting on DRM: Their worst nightmare should not be that they fail, but that they succeed. If they do, they, like TSR, will quietly starve in the corner while the people who would have been their customers become someone else's customers instead. TSR learned that if you jerk the players around too much, they'll go play something else. Publishers are going to learn, and learn to the detriment of the market, that if they jerk the readers around too much, they'll go do something else. Reading is not the only game in town -- it's competing with TV, video games, movies, and a host of other things. Make it too inconvenient, and people will decide it's not worth their time, and customers are lost forever. Then there's nobody left to pay the authors, and we bookaholics lose.
Ha! WOTC lost me with D&D 4E's MMO-ing of D&D. My friends and I didn't play for almost a decade but we got back to playing (helps that some of us are in the same city again). We play mostly 2E and my campaign is Pathfinder. Who, BTW, sells pdfs of their books with only the social DRM that someone else mentioned (your name and email address). I bought one for $10 (IIRC) - a far cry from the ~$35 I spent on the Hardcover book - and find it super useful. I would have never bought a DRM'd pdf from them.

I know that WOTC basically put the Kabosh on places selling PDFs, right? Too bad. I could still use a few copies of some of the rarer Dragonlance 3.5e books.

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Originally Posted by taosaur View Post
It also establishes an antagonistic relationship between the publisher (and by extension, the authors) and the readership, particularly the most informed and vocal segment of the readership, which is no good for anyone.
I agree. I stopped purchasing music almost completely as I was fed up with the RIAA and their anti-customer attitude, price fixing, and lawsuits. I really mainly stopped consuming their content. I used to buy tons of CDs. Now I buy maybe an album or two a year - and I try to buy from indie labels. I listen to more podcasts, listen to more internet radio (I guess they get a tiny bit of money there), and buy used CDs if I must buy music.

Last edited by GreenMonkey; 04-18-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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