Using ebook readers on aeroplanes?

[mogui]

Originally Posted by whitearrow

I don't read that the same way you do. To me, if wireless is turned off, the device is not "intentionally transmitting" signals.

The paragraph following that: Transportable electronic equipment which are non-transmitters and without any accessories that would transmit/receive radio signals . . .

The key word here is "would". The rationale is probably that it is too easy to forget and leave a transmitter enabled. My Android phone has WiFi, bluetooth, and a GPS radio. In parts of the world where the government taxes you for receiving radio signals, they detect your noncompliance with a roving vehicle which can detect the emissions from the superhet section of your receiver. So even a receiver broadcasts slightly!

But other airlines have more liberal policies. There is talk of providing onboard WiFi and phone cells. If you find airlines which offer liberal policies for literate passengers, kindly report them here.

[bill_mchale]

The whole situation is actually quite ridiculous. Quite a few airlines are now starting to put wifi in some of their airplanes! Flying at 50,000 feet, they are exposed to all sorts of E-M radiation that we are not exposed to on the ground -- And in general are capable of absorbing multiple lightning strikes safely. Further, quite a few electronic devices are never completely off unless their battery is dead... this is certainly true of most eReaders.

To put it in simple terms, I will obey the regulations of an airline.. but that doesn't mean they make any sense.

--
Bill

[SeaBookGuy]

I still cannot understand why cell phones are okay once the plane hits the runway, but (technically)
mp3 players and e-readers are not?

[speakingtohe]

I still cannot understand why cell phones are okay once the plane hits the runway, but (technically)
mp3 players and e-readers are not?

I see your point. Not enough pressure to airlines from passengers I guess.
The compulsion to be constantly texting/talking has taken over a fairly large segment of the population to the point that it could be classified as an addiction.

[Timmy_B]

I don't notice anyone admitting they’re pilots here. I am a pilot, and beyond the FAA regs it's all at the discretion of the PIC (Pilot in Command). They’re god in the air.

As far as the language of the regs go, “operate” means whatever the PIC SAYS it means when the plane is in the air.

Last, I want that guy/gal up front ‘driving the bus’ as COMFORTABLE as possible. And that the equipment (i.e. airplane) we’re riding in has EVERY chance to perform properly.

So just turn the darn things OFF when they tell you to.

Jus’ Sayin’…

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I recently read an article that said that the real reason cell phones and were banned from use in flight was that at the altitude planes fly at, a cell phone could connect with several towers at once and occupy too many channels at once. You decide if you want to believe that or not.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Timmy_B

So just turn the darn things OFF when they tell you to.

Jus’ Sayin’…

I do, but the guy in front of my kept his iphone on, playing a movie, the whole time -- and managed not to crash the plane.

I'll obey, but it would be NICE to know WHY, because it sounds like HORSESH@T, and keeping pilots happy in their horesh@t is no explanation.

Given the incredible frequency of "guy still doesn't turn off his device" like the guy in front of me -- it would be LUNACY for planes not to be DESIGNED to be able to operate safely inspite of such devices.

I can see it now -- Al Queda sends fleet of jihadists on planes with their cell phones and kindles surreptitiously on in their pockets.

Lee

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by leebase

I'll obey, but it would be NICE to know WHY, because it sounds like HORSESH@T, and keeping pilots happy in their horesh@t is no explanation.

It's been explained several times in this thread already.

[Kevin527]

Hi
Absurdly, airlines in the U.S. that I travel on frequently all require that e-books be completely turned off for 10 minutes or so after takeoff and also prior to landing. When they can be turned on again is largely at the discretion of the pilot, who signals the crew that they can announce that electronic devices can be turned on or must be shut off. This makes no sense to me because any functions that could interfere with airplane navigation can be disabled on the iPad and Kindle, the devices I've used, and still continue to be used for reading, but e-book readers are considered the same as i-Pods, computers, etc: "anything with an on/off switch" which is how crew members describe everything that must be turned off. My personal soution is to also have a magazine or something else with me to read during the times they requrie us to turn readers off.

[speakingtohe]

Well it would be just my luck to cause a crash by some bizarre ereader use. I just turn it off.
I am fortunate in that I don't go ballistic or curl into a fetal position when I can't read/text/talk etc. My symapathies to those that do

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Kevin527

Hi
Absurdly, airlines in the U.S. that I travel on frequently all require that e-books be completely turned off for 10 minutes or so after takeoff and also prior to landing. When they can be turned on again is largely at the discretion of the pilot, who signals the crew that they can announce that electronic devices can be turned on or must be shut off. This makes no sense to me because any functions that could interfere with airplane navigation can be disabled on the iPad and Kindle, the devices I've used, and still continue to be used for reading, but e-book readers are considered the same as i-Pods, computers, etc: "anything with an on/off switch" which is how crew members describe everything that must be turned off. My personal soution is to also have a magazine or something else with me to read during the times they requrie us to turn readers off.

Last I took plane, that was closer to 20-30 minutes than 10...

Notice that your laptop with Wifi is prohibited even if you have the WiFi off. This goes for readers too. I have colored the text above as it appeared in the in-flight magazine.

That is why there is a "plane mode" on my cellphone, a switch on my laptop. DS and PMP can deactivate wifi...
I'll be going to japan, there is just no way to sped such a long time without being able to use anything.

What? They don't offer any information?

No, that don't offer information. They say "don't do that" , but gives no actual reason on the why.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by Kevin527

This makes no sense to me because any functions that could interfere with airplane navigation can be disabled on the iPad and Kindle

Firstly, as has been discussed many times in this thread, electronic devices will radiate when they operate, even when actual transmission systems have been turned off (be they cellphone, wifi, bluetooth or whatever).

Secondly, it's not just navigation systems which carry a perceived risk of interference - fly-by-wire, communications and many other safety-critical systems could conceivably be affected by EM radiation. Clearly, during take off and landing, the effect of any interference is likely to be more critical, hence a higher margin for safety is applied (turn off the device completely, rather than just turn off any radio modules).

Thirdly, despite it perhaps being very unlikely that the EM radiation from an ebook reader would cause problematic interference, unless you are professionally qualified to make that judgement it matters not whether or not it makes no sense to you (no offence!). What matters is that it makes sense to those who actually understand the technical issues.

/JB

[EowynCarter]

Thirdly, despite it perhaps being very unlikely that the EM radiation from an ebook reader would cause problematic interference, unless you are professionally qualified to make that judgement it matters not whether or not it makes no sense to you (no offence!). What matters is that it makes sense to those who actually understand the technical issues.

No, i'm not qualified, but the people who made the plane are.
Do you think anyone would let a plane fly that can be affected by people inside it switching on electronics devices ? That would be pure madness !
If the plane can be affected by that, i would be extremely worried about what else can affect the plane. Remember me never not to get inside a plane again, then.

[mldavis2]

If every passenger on an aircraft had an RF-emitting device turned on, there is no telling what secondary RF could be generated and at what frequency and power. Old radios operated using Beat Frequency Oscillation (BFO) which combined and overlapped waves to create new ones, similar to harmony in music. Such combined oscillations could create 'new' frequencies that might interfere with navigational systems, though it's unlikely. Aircraft IFR equipment are highly shielded and far enough away from hand-held device frequencies to be theoretically safe, but with a new device coming out every day, it is impossible to verify each and every one of them for safety. So just make a single, simple rule that lasts only for 20 minutes or so and enforce it. I was on a Continental flight recently that was held on the tarmac for a minute while the stewardess came back and announced that a cell phone was on that must be turned off. Sure enough, some teen-ager pulled one out of her purse and flipped the switch. Perhaps there are now devices within some commercial aircraft for detection of spurious RF frequencies?

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

No, i'm not qualified, but the people who made the plane are.

Don't you think the people who made the plane have had some input into the restrictions?

Do you think anyone would let a plane fly that can be affected by people inside it switching on electronics devices ?

Planes *are* affected by people inside it switching on electronic devices. For example, from http://www.glenair.com/html/emi.htm

A recent incident on a commercial passenger plane illustrates the power of even low frequency RFI to disrupt avionic systems. In January 1993, on a flight from Denver, Colorado, to Newark, NJ, an aircraft lost all directional gyros (electromechanical devices that indicate orientation) at cruise altitude. The captain instructed the flight attendant to go through the cabin and tell all passengers to turn off their electronic devices. She reported back that about 25 passengers with portable radios had been listening to a Denver Broncos playoff game and that one passenger was also using a lap top computer. Within two minutes of the Captain's request to turn the radios off, the gyros had swung back to their correct heading. Later in the flight, several Bronco fans covertly resumed their use of the portable radios, and again the directional gyros began to malfunction. The radios were then confiscated and no further problems were experienced on the flight.

Note that these people were using radio receivers, not transmitters - any interference generated was leaked emissions from the electronics, not deliberately transmitted.

/JB