Most overhyped classic masterpiece? - Page 16

kennyc · 10-05-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

There was a TV programme here recently discussing the contenders for an upcoming fiction award.

The panel discussing the shortlist made the point that the real judges would be reading the books 3 or 4 times; and thereby have a far different view of them than a reader who had only read them once.

As someone who very rarely rereads a book, I thought this was an interesting point; and maybe explains why the books that win the awards often come as a surprise.

Hmmm, good point. I also think there is a completely different perspective when one is reading a book to determine an award than when one if reading for pleasure. Even if it is only read once.

I too rarely re-read, but there are a few that I have and probably will read again.

HarryT · 10-05-2009, 08:18 AM

Interesting questions. What is a "classic"? For me, the answer is that it's a book which is popular, and which has stood the test of time, in the sense of remaining popular to generations of readers after the one for whom it was written. So I guess I'sd say that only "time" can make a book a classic.

RichyRich · 10-05-2009, 09:00 AM

Ben-Hur for me. I tried to read the book many times, but it would bore me rather quickly.

LDBoblo · 10-05-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

A good question would be: what is a classic? A book that has been around for so long? A book that has been read by so large a percentage of the readers?

Impossible to define absolutely. I already provided an intended definition for the purposes of the thread though.

kacir · 10-06-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Interesting questions. What is a "classic"? For me, the answer is that it's a book which is popular, and which has stood the test of time, in the sense of remaining popular to generations of readers after the one for whom it was written. So I guess I'sd say that only "time" can make a book a classic.

When I was preparing for my English Language State Exam (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Examination ) we had to read certain number of "classics" in English. There was no list of books, you could choose any book that was "classic". By that time I had read several hundreds of books in English, but I suspected that Stephen King, JRR Tolkien, Terry Pratchett , or even Agatha Christie would not be considered "classic" by the Examination Committee. So I was pressing my teacher -- a member of Committee -- to define what exactly a "classic book" was. After lots of questions I came up with a definition.
A "classic book" is anything your English teacher has read in English, so [s]he can discuss the book with you during the exam ;-)
As far as I could tell, very few Committee members had read anything [in English] except the books they were forced to read for their exams, while they were studying to become English Teachers.

Sweetpea · 10-06-2009, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacir

When I was preparing for my English Language State Exam (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Examination ) we had to read certain number of "classics" in English. There was no list of books, you could choose any book that was "classic". By that time I had read several hundreds of books in English, but I suspected that Stephen King, JRR Tolkien, Terry Pratchett , or even Agatha Christie would not be considered "classic" by the Examination Committee. So I was pressing my teacher -- a member of Committee -- to define what exactly a "classic book" was. After lots of questions I came up with a definition.
A "classic book" is anything your English teacher has read in English, so [s]he can discuss the book with you during the exam ;-)
As far as I could tell, very few Committee members had read anything [in English] except the books they were forced to read for their exams, while they were studying to become English Teachers.

One of my English teachers was much more advanced. She thought that her students should read English. No matter what book exactly. So, I has The Clan of the Cave Bear and Shogun on my list (beside 1984 and The Day of the Triffids)

jgaiser · 11-02-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's my criterion too, and for me it's Dickens, Austen, Trollope, and so on. Proust and Balzac really aren't to my taste, but obviously we all have different likes and dislikes!

And *I* (imnsho) think this is where all these best of lists fail. My tastes, likes, dislikes are different from the next guy. How can anyone make a bests list without butting up against someones dislikes.

By the way, I like Tom Sawyer. It's a juvenile book. Meant to be. Huckleberry Finn is better, but then *I* think Roughing It is better yet. So there...

GA Russell · 11-03-2009, 01:44 AM

The very first novel I was required to read in college was Albert Camus's The Plague. Boy, did I hate that one. It took my a while before I realized that college life would not be four years of reading books like that!

Another college requirement that I thought was dreadful was Isak Dinesen's Out of Africa. Twenty years later I saw the movie, and I hated that too! That was supposed to be somewhat autobiographical, and all it was was hundreds of pages of the heroine feeling sorry for herself.

My sophomore year I took a course on Melville, and read every novel he wrote up to the one past Moby Dick (Was it Billy Budd?). Moby Dick was a summation of what he had been writing all those previous years, so by the time he got to it, his allusions were pretty familiar to the reader. I'm not sure I would have understood Moby Dick if I had read it cold turkey without reading Typee and the others first.

FlorenceArt · 11-03-2009, 02:59 AM

Personally, understanding a book has nothing to do with how much I enjoy it. I have read and loved many books that left me puzzled or feeling I only vaguely understood some things. On the other hand, the books that I feel like throwing against the wall (hey, that's something that's more difficult to do with an e-book - not that I would do it in either case

) are the ones where everything is laid out in detail, especially the character's thoughts or feelings, or even what I should be feeling (that's the worst). I need some blanks to fill with my own imagination, and I do think some measure of mystery or ambiguity adds to the enjoyment.

And to more or less tie this with the original question, I tried to read Tom Sawyer recently and felt it was rather lacking in that department (mystery/ambiguity). I didn't finish it.

GA Russell · 11-04-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayspooled

...and most particularly I dislike A Confederacy Of Dunces.

My family moved to New Orleans in March of 1962 when I was 11 years old. By coincidence, Dunces is set in New Orleans in 1962.

The author really nails the dialects and the personalities of the city's people! I loved the book from start to finish, except for the impolite joke about the dirty linen.

BenG · 11-04-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Another college requirement that I thought was dreadful was Isak Dinesen's Out of Africa. Twenty years later I saw the movie, and I hated that too! That was supposed to be somewhat autobiographical, and all it was was hundreds of pages of the heroine feeling sorry for herself.

And you would think she was running the coffee plantation by herself. She barely mentions her husband.

BenG · 11-04-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Interesting questions. What is a "classic"? For me, the answer is that it's a book which is popular, and which has stood the test of time, in the sense of remaining popular to generations of readers after the one for whom it was written. So I guess I'sd say that only "time" can make a book a classic.

A classic is anything older than me.

sebastienbillard · 11-04-2009, 04:01 AM

I think Rimbaud and Baudelaire are over hyped, especially when you consider the lifestyle of this kind of people (not soo good exemples for the youth). More generally when you look at all the authors praised by the system and dig a little, it is very deceiving : many of them were racists, mysoginic, antisemits, alcoholic or drug users. The so called "Lumières" and their descendants were very dark sometimes. I regret some litteratures is not read in school (in France at least). What come to my mind are apophtegms of the fathers of the desert, buddhist scriptures, english poetry and litterature... There is a infinite world to read and always the same figures are mentionned...

Ea · 11-04-2009, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenG

And you would think she was running the coffee plantation by herself. She barely mentions her husband.

Well, for a large part of the time she did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastienbillard

.... I regret some litteratures is not read in school (in France at least). What come to my mind are apophtegms of the fathers of the desert, buddhist scriptures, english poetry and litterature... There is a infinite world to read and always the same figures are mentionned...

I hear your point about not always dragging out the old war horses - but your suggestions sound more like they belongs in religion class and English class respectively. We read Danish authors in Danish class (and a little bit Swedish and Norwegian) - the point being to make us acquainted with our own language through literature - that couldn't very well have been done reading English authors

sebastienbillard · 11-04-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

your suggestions sound more like they belongs in religion class and English class respectively

Well you made a valid point, I must be too universal

(though one can read translations of authors from other countries). Still I am not sure reading Ionesco for example helped me to master my own language.

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10-05-2009, 08:18 AM	#227
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,557 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Interesting questions. What is a "classic"? For me, the answer is that it's a book which is popular, and which has stood the test of time, in the sense of remaining popular to generations of readers after the one for whom it was written. So I guess I'sd say that only "time" can make a book a classic.

10-05-2009, 09:00 AM	#228
RichyRich Connoisseur Posts: 72 Karma: 511678 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: EZ Reader Pocket Pro	Ben-Hur for me. I tried to read the book many times, but it would bore me rather quickly.

11-03-2009, 01:44 AM	#233
GA Russell What a weekend! Posts: 7,695 Karma: 31487351 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	The very first novel I was required to read in college was Albert Camus's The Plague. Boy, did I hate that one. It took my a while before I realized that college life would not be four years of reading books like that! Another college requirement that I thought was dreadful was Isak Dinesen's Out of Africa. Twenty years later I saw the movie, and I hated that too! That was supposed to be somewhat autobiographical, and all it was was hundreds of pages of the heroine feeling sorry for herself. My sophomore year I took a course on Melville, and read every novel he wrote up to the one past Moby Dick (Was it Billy Budd?). Moby Dick was a summation of what he had been writing all those previous years, so by the time he got to it, his allusions were pretty familiar to the reader. I'm not sure I would have understood Moby Dick if I had read it cold turkey without reading Typee and the others first.

11-03-2009, 02:59 AM	#234
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	Personally, understanding a book has nothing to do with how much I enjoy it. I have read and loved many books that left me puzzled or feeling I only vaguely understood some things. On the other hand, the books that I feel like throwing against the wall (hey, that's something that's more difficult to do with an e-book - not that I would do it in either case ) are the ones where everything is laid out in detail, especially the character's thoughts or feelings, or even what I should be feeling (that's the worst). I need some blanks to fill with my own imagination, and I do think some measure of mystery or ambiguity adds to the enjoyment. And to more or less tie this with the original question, I tried to read Tom Sawyer recently and felt it was rather lacking in that department (mystery/ambiguity). I didn't finish it.

11-04-2009, 04:01 AM	#238
sebastienbillard Connoisseur Posts: 72 Karma: 60 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	I think Rimbaud and Baudelaire are over hyped, especially when you consider the lifestyle of this kind of people (not soo good exemples for the youth). More generally when you look at all the authors praised by the system and dig a little, it is very deceiving : many of them were racists, mysoginic, antisemits, alcoholic or drug users. The so called "Lumières" and their descendants were very dark sometimes. I regret some litteratures is not read in school (in France at least). What come to my mind are apophtegms of the fathers of the desert, buddhist scriptures, english poetry and litterature... There is a infinite world to read and always the same figures are mentionned...

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