Firmware 4.8.10956

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was under the impression from looking at the source code downloads that Amazon used Linux not Android as the operating system on their eInk ereaders.

Android is Linux.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Android is Linux.

Deep down. But they ruin it with that funky java front-end.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...roid-and-Linux

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Android is Linux.

Not really. The kernel is not all that different though diffing the kernel sources shows quite a few changes but older Android releases used Dalvik to run applications (see Oracle vs. Google for more about Dalvik: is it an illegal clone of Java) while newer Android releases use ART (Android RunTime) -- I seem to remember the changeover happened around Android 5 Lollipop but I'm not going to bother to check my memory on that.

[Oletros]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Not really. The kernel is not all that different though diffing the kernel sources shows quite a few changes but older Android releases used Dalvik to run applications (see Oracle vs. Google for more about Dalvik: is it an illegal clone of Java) while newer Android releases use ART (Android RunTime) -- I seem to remember the changeover happened around Android 5 Lollipop but I'm not going to bother to check my memory on that.

Dalvik is not any illegal clone of Java, in fact, Dalvik is a virtual machine like java virtual machine and the only things regarding Dalvik in the trial were some patent infrigements accusations that were dismissed

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I don't see any packages in the open source code or in the downloaded firmware that would allow running Android apps on a Kindle eInk ereader.

Android Apps need two things at least not on Kindle: The Davik VM to run the Google equivalent of Java and the GUI.
Android is built on top of a Linux core.
a) Amazon isn't going to have any package Kindle HW doesn't need.
b) Unless you can download source and build & run Kindle SW on a Kindle you have no idea how complete or accurate the source info Amazon gives. They will only publish enough to avoid EFF lawsuits.
The earlier Sony PRS eInk used a Linux. The later Sony PRS models were based on Android, but Sony's GUI. That didn't mean you could do anything useful like install Amazon's Kindle App for Android. At least I don't think so, or Sony might be still selling them.
It's significant that only phones/tablets/PCs etc and NO competing eInk readers have Amazon's App (needed for any Kindle content with DRM). There are also STUPIDLY Amazon so called "eBooks" (two kinds I think) that won't run on any eInk reader, but only on Amazon Fire (a crippled Android tablet) and Amazon Kindle Apps.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I don't see anything Android at all in the Kindle firmware (thank goodness). Original Kindle used Linux kernel 2.6.x and the newest (at least on my Kindle Basic) uses 3.10.x.

Well, perhaps I'm mistaken.
It doesn't matter anyway, as no eInk based screen is suitable for typical Android Apps. I do think it's daft using Android in any form for an eInk based eReader.

The important aspect of the original comment is that the only limitation for Kobo to support older eInk ereaders is RAM. Amazon dropping support for older eInk could be due to lack of Touch, lack of RAM, physical keyboards or marketing.
I notice the file format now for DXG download is now different to Paperwhite (#2 or #3 version maybe we have). Also if you download direct via WiFi to Paperwhite you get a different (useless to backup) format compared to "save to PC and USB transfer". We only use Transfer via PC for the three Kindles here and ensure WE have backups on two separate computers at least.
DO NOT RELY ON THE CLOUD!
see "No Silver Lining" by Ray McCarthy. Also Amazon ceasing Cloud for MP3.


Do NOT use the KOBO "Delete from eReader" when finished option with only cloud storage. If you have no laptop/PC, then a USB OTG adaptor for Android phone/tablet and a filemanager will let you backup your Kobo books if you run out of space.

My 1st rule of computers in 30+ years of use: Don't delete! Make backups!

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Oletros

Dalvik is not any illegal clone of Java, in fact, Dalvik is a virtual machine like java virtual machine and the only things regarding Dalvik in the trial were some patent infrigements accusations that were dismissed

Though Google is facing a $8 Billion fine for infringement. It's really a very complicated issue. Davik, Java VM, MS Visual Basic VM and .Net VM are all derived from the 1970s UCSD p-Machine. It's more complicated than "simply" the Java APIs. Also there are two flavours of Java, the kind on Symbian and other PDA/Smartphone OSes before Android (a cheapish licence), and the kind on Servers and PCs (free but not allowed for phones).
Sun was in discussion with the Android developers about a licence. They KNEW they needed one. Android was then bought out by Google (who also knew about the licence issues). Then Oracle bought Sun. Oracle may have refused to licence the desktop version to Google for Android, not sure
So it's really complicated. It looks like Oracle will have to licence the "full" Java for anything, (free for some things) but Google will have to pay for past infringements. The $8 billion will be appealed (Google could have BOUGHT Sun for less than that). Some sort of more reasonable deal will be done.
Google's alternate OS plan is to ditch Linux/Android entirely for Fuchsia.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by the.Mtn.Man

Android is Linux.

That's a bit like saying Win3.x or Win95 is DOS. Or like claiming OS X is BSD UNIX (It's derived from NextStep which was based on one of the BSD flavours).
Android does use a variation of the Linux Kernel. Really a Linux Distro though is GNU/Linux. Android may have some other GNU/ Linux code. The top layer is the GUI, unlike any Linux Desktop or Window Manager and the Applications are written in Java but compiled to Google's VM Byte Code rather than Oracle/Sun's Byte Code for JVM. MS J++ was essentially Java too (running on same VM as VB6), but Sun threatened to sue so it became C# on .Net platform. Mysteriously neither Android team or Google chose that route. One reason was EXISTING Java mobile app developers and Apps would easily move to the Android clone of Desktop Java, a superset of the sort of Java that had been on feature phones and Symbian S60 smartphones.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Android Apps need two things at least not on Kindle: The Davik VM to run the Google equivalent of Java and the GUI.
Android is built on top of a Linux core.
a) Amazon isn't going to have any package Kindle HW doesn't need.
b) Unless you can download source and build & run Kindle SW on a Kindle you have no idea how complete or accurate the source info Amazon gives. They will only publish enough to avoid EFF lawsuits.

Depends on the version of Android. Dalvik went away 3 or so version of Android back. The Kindle firmware includes Java but not Dalvik or ART. The kernel source which is rather different does not match the differences used with the Android flavour though the Fire version does contain most of the same differences as the Goole Android version does.

I played with building the source code on an Ubuntu VM and managed to get the compilation to work though quite a bit more of a pain than the ToolChain Build Howto suggested. A Linux kernel running the bash shell was supposed to be the final result but never bothered to try running the compiled output on an ARM-based system.

[DNSB]

We have wandered so far from discussing Kobo's 4.8.10956 firmware that it's time to either drop the Kindle Android/Linux or move it to a new thread in a more appropriate forum.

[Oletros]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Though Google is facing a $8 Billion fine for infringement. It's really a very complicated issue. Davik, Java VM, MS Visual Basic VM and .Net VM are all derived from the 1970s UCSD p-Machine. It's more complicated than "simply" the Java APIs. Also there are two flavours of Java, the kind on Symbian and other PDA/Smartphone OSes before Android (a cheapish licence), and the kind on Servers and PCs (free but not allowed for phones).
Sun was in discussion with the Android developers about a licence. They KNEW they needed one. Android was then bought out by Google (who also knew about the licence issues). Then Oracle bought Sun. Oracle may have refused to licence the desktop version to Google for Android, not sure
So it's really complicated. It looks like Oracle will have to licence the "full" Java for anything, (free for some things) but Google will have to pay for past infringements. The $8 billion will be appealed (Google could have BOUGHT Sun for less than that). Some sort of more reasonable deal will be done.
Google's alternate OS plan is to ditch Linux/Android entirely for Fuchsia.

No, it is not complicated, at the end, the trial was just about copyright and fair use matters of the Java API.

[Quoth]

I look forward to a newer version of firmware without added bugs and added pointless features.
They could bring back old more useful home page. I don't need more than half wasted with a Books preview image and a Collections Preview image with two small adverts underneath.
A qty of annotations on the summary when you hold down on thumbnail was good. That is gone completely.
Separate BOOKMARKS to a separate menu/icon instead of under annotations. For me they are unrelated and for navigation. Annotations are annotations and not navigation related!

Really the main GUI is rubbish. I saw better on document management systems 20 years ago.
The totally flat style interface may be the current fashion on Win 10, Android and many websites, but it's stupid. GUI elements should have slight highlight on two edges and slight shadow on the two diagonal edges. Reverse to show something selected instead of badly drawn "slide" switches.

Also don't try to "guess" if keyboard should be Caps, lower case, symbol or alpha. It's so often wrong, though I found the -> arrow key cancels Upper case, otherwise you have to press ^ twice.

I've found Kobo customer support abysmal.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

I look forward to a newer version of firmware without added bugs and added pointless features.
They could bring back old more useful home page.

Extremely unlikely to happen. And it would always be a good idea to mention which old home page. The current one is at least the fourth I have seen.

I don't need more than half wasted with a Books preview image and a Collections Preview image with two small adverts underneath.

I don't have any book preview images on my home page. But, if you mean the covers shown across the top for books I am reading, how is that any different from the previous tiled home page?

A qty of annotations on the summary when you hold down on thumbnail was good. That is gone completely.

Which firmware was that? The tiled home page did show the number of annotations in the tile under the cover image, but you didn't need to press anything.

Separate BOOKMARKS to a separate menu/icon instead of under annotations. For me they are unrelated and for navigation. Annotations are annotations and not navigation related!

We'll have to disagree on that. To me, they are all reminders of something. Whether I felt the need to add a comment is separate. Plus, I can always go back and add the comment to a bookmark.

Really the main GUI is rubbish. I saw better on document management systems 20 years ago.
The totally flat style interface may be the current fashion on Win 10, Android and many websites, but it's stupid. GUI elements should have slight highlight on two edges and slight shadow on the two diagonal edges. Reverse to show something selected instead of badly drawn "slide" switches.

I can't thin of anywhere that using "reverse" to show something selected would make sense where they aren't already doing it. I tap something in the UI and it goes reverse video while things happen. I don't expect an option in the settings to do that. Either a checkbox, a drop-down or the slider. And the only slider of any sort I can think of is on the WiFi popup. Anywhere else an on/off option exists, it is a checkbox (and I fully expect someone to come along and point out all the places I can't think of at the moment.)

But, in general, I agree about the flat styles being used elsewhere. I'm not a fan. On e-ink there is a problem for drop shadows and things as the way the screens are refreshed means that the ghosting left behind might confuse things. Plus, the screen is limited to grey-scale, so some of the choices for UI design are elimited.

Also don't try to "guess" if keyboard should be Caps, lower case, symbol or alpha. It's so often wrong, though I found the -> arrow key cancels Upper case, otherwise you have to press ^ twice.

The only time the keyboard tries to guess if the case should be upper is if it is the first character typed. And I only think this happens in the annotations field. And it is a pretty common thing for the first character in a sentence to be upper case, so it is a fairly safe bet.

[the.Mtn.Man]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I don't have any book preview images on my home page. But, if you mean the covers shown across the top for books I am reading, how is that any different from the previous tiled home page?

The old homepage could have as many half-a-dozen tiles reflecting recent activity, including reading stats and if you accessed anything like the games. The new home screen shows only your four most recent reads at the top with the lower half showing a fanned out preview of other books in your on-board library and a link to the Kobo bookshop at the very bottom. It's a bit less personalized and flexible than the old tiled screen. It doesn't really bother me, but I can appreciate why some people are unhappy with it.

[icanread190]

The new update has rendered my Kobo Aura (original I think) essentially useless since I can't authorize it with Adobe Digital Editions to read library books.
I see in this thread the possibility of reverting to the previous version.
In simple terms (for a non tech person) can someone explain how to do this.