Kindle 4 screen is THE SAME as K3.

[Blossom]

I don't think any one here is right or wrong. I think perception plays a big part. No one can say that they are either. They have to see many K3s and K4s from different batches before it would become fact. Both sides has seen a few different ones and can only tell their personal experience.

Personal perception is what really counts because it's the person who has to use the device. If you're not happy with it than exchange for another one. If you can't find one after you replaced it that works for you then try another reader. What matter is if you are happy or not.

I do think on the text, the rendering has been changed due to being able to see the jagged edges of the text when in bright light. Looks at W,M and Y in a bright light and you will see it's like the K4's anti aliasing has been turned down compared to the K3 where I see no edges at all.

As for the background. It looks grey in cool lighting and in more warmer light it looks tarnish brown at least in my home it does and in the bright light it looks about the same as my K3.

I find the K3 does not change background colors as much under different lighting so something in the eInk process could have changed there too.

I don't think the screen quality itself is inferior in quality but some subtle changes whether it be manufacturer, methods or supplier of materials has changed the clarity and contrast on the K4. Though some devices the changes made are subtle, there are K4s out there where the changes are very apparent like the one I sent back that was so gray it ghost white when going down the book list and didn't look like Pearl text at all!

Another thing I notice now we are in Winter the K4 is more acceptable to tint changes than my K3 when it's cold.

So there are alot factors that make up the tint and contrast differences on the K4.

My K4's background seems to change in different lighting or temps but the text clarity remains the same no matter what it still has rendering isses.

I do think a firmware change would be wonderful if they could do something like the Nook Touch did that would be great!

The darker the text the better the background will look. I change my K3's font to a bolder font and the background became near white before it was a medium creme color.

So my conclusion is that my K4 is more susceptible to lighting and temps than my K3 when it comes to the background tint and lightness. I have been able using this theory get rid of the greyness on the K4 by changing the light to something warmer. I doubt it would work on the one I sent back. Now if they could just fix the text issue I would be very happy.

[shinew]

Originally Posted by Blossom

I don't think any one here is right or wrong. I think perception plays a big part. No one can say that they are either. They have to see many K3s and K4s from different batches before it would become fact. Both sides has seen a few different ones and can only tell their personal experience.

The thing is that as with any theory, it's much easier to disapprove it than to establish it. You'll need vast majority of the people to agree and be able to stand against both subjective and objective tests/observations. And that's not the case here with the theory that older K3 screen is superior to the newer one.

I do think on the text, the rendering has been changed due to being able to see the jagged edges of the text when in bright light. Looks at W,M and Y in a bright light and you will see it's like the K4's anti aliasing has been turned down compared to the K3 where I see no edges at all.

That's possible I think. I didn't notice that myself but I do remember the Nook STR has different font rendering, making it look bolder than K4 non-touch despite them having the same font & same screen. If that's the cause, then it's software related and can be tuned through firmware update, but it has nothing to do with the actual screen.

Personal perception is what really counts because it's the person who has to use the device. If you're not happy with it than exchange for another one. If you can't find one after you replaced it that works for you then try another reader. What matter is if you are happy or not.

Agreed.

[Barty]

Originally Posted by shinew

Sigh... no you don't get it.

You(and some others) seem to confuse two things as one, which is personal opinions and objective observation(facts). You can say that in your eyes the older K3's background is brighter than the sun for all I care and I'm not going to dispute with that(as I've pointed out before). But to say it as fact that A is better than B, personal opinions are not enough, you need to show a methodical, objective, controlled and repeatable test results to support your view.
I thought this was common sense...

I don't argue with that. Of course, to me, one test done by one person with a few samples doesn't proove anything either.

I'll go on believing my lying eyes. And those of two other people IRL who complained to me about the same thing UNPROMPTED. Considering I only know three with a KT, that's not a good %age.

Even if the screens really are the same, the fact that people perceive a difference because of the bevel or whatever IS a problem. Telling them it's just their brain fooling them is as productive as saying "don't hold it that way". At least "don't hold it that way" is a workaround, sort of.

[sieg66]

Next days I'll show the two devices to some people and ask them if they see a difference or if one is easier to read and i'll told you the result.

[shinew]

Originally Posted by Barty

I don't argue with that. Of course, to me, one test done by one person with s few samples doesn't proove anything either.

It seems that you did not get what I was saying in my previous post. I don't need to prove anything(just to be clear we're talking about factual statement and not personal opinions). The validity of the argument of whether the newer screen is the same or worse is not 50/50. It is given that they are the same screen unless it's proven otherwise. Why? Because it's Amazon's device and they say so.

I don't see why this is hard to understand but here is an analogy if it helps:
you tell me that your right ear can't hear anything, then I say "yes you can, you're lying". Does it make sense for you to have to prove to me that you really can't hear anything in your right ear for your claim to be valid? of course not! Unless I find away to prove that you're lying, your claim is true & valid. So is Amazon's. Does it make sense now?

I'll go on believing my lying eyes. And those of two other people IRL who complained to me about the same thing UNPROMPTED. Considering I only know three with a KT, that's not a good %age.

That's perfectly fine and it's entirely valid opinions , and your eyes might or might not be lying. I've repeated again and again that everyone's entitled for their opinions and they should do whatever they feel is right. If you're not happy with it, return it, or not... up to you.

Even if the screen really are the same, the fact that people perceive a difference because if the bevel or whatever IS a problem. Telling them it's just their brain fooling them is as productive as saying "don't hold it that way". At least "don't hold it that way" is a workaround .

That's putting words in my mouth.
Despite some people's claims which are inconsistent with what amazon says as well as some of our own findings, I've not told anyone that his/her perception of the actual screen is false I've simply offered some possible explanations which have been proven to affect visual perception, they maybe true in your case, maybe not.

The only thing I've pointed out as false as some have believed to be true is that, vast majority of the photographs(including the one I've shown before as an example) comparing 2 screens and claiming to prove something, indeed does not prove anything. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[Zeebra]

Originally Posted by shinew

The only thing I've pointed out as false as some have believed to be true is that, vast majority of the photographs(including the one I've shown before as an example) comparing 2 screens and claiming to prove something, indeed does not prove anything. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

At the end of the day, when it came time for me to decide which Kindle keyboard to keep and which one to give away, it took no time at all to decide which screen was better. Both myself and my wife could see the difference in the screens easily with the naked eye. You can cut swabs out of pictures and tell me it's all an optical illusion and the screens are in fact the same, but I know what I saw.

[shinew]

Originally Posted by Zeebra

At the end of the day, when it came time for me to decide which Kindle keyboard to keep and which one to give away, it took no time at all to decide which screen was better. Both myself and my wife could see the difference in the screens easily with the naked eye. You can cut swabs out of pictures and tell me it's all an optical illusion and the screens are in fact the same, but I know what I saw.

I thought we've long ago covered the "At the end of the day..." part, everyone agrees that individual user experience is what matters most. so good for you that you made an easy decision.

However, what you've just said had nothing to do with the part you quoted me, which in essence is that most pictures that claim to prove something, including yours proves nothing

[lkkmaths]

Got a Kindle Basic. Greatly annoyed and disturbed to find a poorly contrasted e-ink I've ever see. Simply not acceptable and not comparable with K3, though the form factor is superb.

Saw a friend's Kindle Touch yesterday and put it side by side with K3. Hardly saw any difference. Both sharp and crisp.

From what I personally see, nobody is lying. Certainly Amazon has great problem in quality control. Lucky guys get the good Kindle and unlucky guys bad ones. How many lemons are there in the market? I don't know.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by lkkmaths

Got a Kindle Basic. Greatly annoyed and disturbed to find a poorly contrasted e-ink I've ever see. Simply not acceptable and not comparable with K3, though the form factor is superb.

Saw a friend's Kindle Touch yesterday and put it side by side with K3. Hardly saw any difference. Both sharp and crisp.

From what I personally see, nobody is lying. Certainly Amazon has great problem in quality control. Lucky guys get the good Kindle and unlucky guys bad ones. How many lemons are there in the market? I don't know.

Call Amazon for replacement. Don't settle. My first one was really bad. The second one I got was much better. Tell them it doesn't look Pearl. That what I told the Rept and he understood.

[SCION]

Originally Posted by lkkmaths

...
Saw a friend's Kindle Touch yesterday and put it side by side with K3. Hardly saw any difference. Both sharp and crisp....

I lucked out and got one of the good ones. No dark grey background either.

[shinew]

Originally Posted by lkkmaths

Got a Kindle Basic. Greatly annoyed and disturbed to find a poorly contrasted e-ink I've ever see. Simply not acceptable and not comparable with K3, though the form factor is superb.

Saw a friend's Kindle Touch yesterday and put it side by side with K3. Hardly saw any difference. Both sharp and crisp.

From what I personally see, nobody is lying. Certainly Amazon has great problem in quality control. Lucky guys get the good Kindle and unlucky guys bad ones. How many lemons are there in the market? I don't know.

I've come across & examined 2x K3, 2x K4, and 4x K4 Touch. So far their screens in terms of contrast have been pretty consistent. Although 2 of which have a slightly greener hue than the others, and one K3 had a lighter black.

As some others has mentioned before, make sure you swap their positions around when you compare them, that makes a big difference. I have not seen a single pair of identical screens when i put them side by side and eyeballing them. The screens always look identical in terms of their position, but not devices.

If you've done the above comparison in your normal reading light and still find your new K4 noticeably worse, exchange it. Amazon's return/exchange policy is so good that their representative almost encourage it when I talked them.

[tlc]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Call Amazon for replacement. Don't settle. My first one was really bad. The second one I got was much better. Tell them it doesn't look Pearl. That what I told the Rept and he understood.

Will they do this if you buy it elsewhere? Or do you have to buy from Amazon?

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by tlc

Will they do this if you buy it elsewhere? Or do you have to buy from Amazon?

It doesn't matter where you bought it. As long as it's under warranty Amazon will replace it. It's just like any other manufacturer's warranty.

[kaytel]

I'm glad shinew has gone to all this trouble. The information provided is good because it is easy to get caught up in the personal perceptions of reviewers. It's definitely the case that many reviewers have been giving the impression that the new model has a generally lower quality screen with all the speculation about display grades and Amazon cutting corners to reduce costs. I should also know better than to trust side-by-side photographs.

The bad reviews on Amazon might represent 90% of those with problems while the good reviews represent 10% of those totally happy with the device. Add to that the common habit of some people to give something a low rating for things that have nothing to do with the product itself.

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

You're trying to force these phrases upon people for the sole purpose of affording your process greater validity than the perceptions people have had. The point still stands that when it comes to displays, perception matters more than numbers. If the eye finds a certain display more pleasing than another, the mind won't care if the numbers show otherwise.

It's quite valid to point out that the numbers don't support the perception. It is a good counterpoint to the complaints and particularly helpful to those of us who were considering buying the product, but were perhaps being put off by the creation of the perception that there is a widespread issue with the product, that it's display is generally substandard.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by kaytel

I'm glad shinew has gone to all this trouble.

Glad you took the trouble to tell us all this, lol!