"Friction" is why e-books adoption is slow - Page 16

europas_ice · 09-04-2007, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherdman

I think that packaging the digital version with the paper version would truly empower the reader.

Nice idea;I like it!

Aenea · 09-04-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by europas_ice

Nice idea;I like it!

I second that!

Also, how about this:
I want to buy a book, I go to amazon, I see it, buy it, it probably will take a couple of weeks before I have it (or a couple of days when I select the most expensive delivery method, hey, I'm not from the US!), but I can download the electronic version instantly.... That I would love

Aenea

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-04-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aenea

I second that!

Also, how about this:
I want to buy a book, I go to amazon, I see it, buy it, it probably will take a couple of weeks before I have it (or a couple of days when I select the most expensive delivery method, hey, I'm not from the US!), but I can download the electronic version instantly.... That I would love

Aenea

The only outcome for this that I can expect will be higher prices... after all, as far as Amazon is concerned, you're buying 2 books.

JSWolf · 09-04-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon

There is a deliberate opening to work around this. What you do is burn the tracks to a CD (which the DRM permits you to do as often as you like). That produces a completely DRM-free bog-standard CD version of your tracks.

Once you've done that, you can import as Apple Lossless, or MP3, or whatever format you like. The imported version will have no DRM, exactly as though you had ripped it from a regular CD.

There are two drawbacks to this approach:

It's more work.
If you re-import in a lossy format, you'll get additional quality degradation (beyond what came from the original conversion before you purchased the tracks, that is). Think of it as making a photocopy of a photocopy. If you re-import in a lossless format, you won't have this problem.

Depending on your system, you may or may not be able to "burn" to a disk image file, rather than an actual CDR. Or not. Your mileage may vary.

Xenophon

Once you burn these tunes to CD, you do not have a standard CD. You have one with a bunch of bits MISSING! AAC and Mp3 toss out bits from the audio. There is no way you can ever get them back. I won't ever pay for music where the company selling it decides to cheat me of the full set of bits that is on the CD. Then ripping this abomination CD and converting it to Apple Lossless is then another silly idea because it's not lossless. No music that isn't truly lossless should be converted to any lossless format.

JSWolf · 09-04-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherdman

If I purchase a pbook then I would love to download an ebook version or pull and ebook version off of a CD or other media. I think that packaging the digital version with the paper version would truly empower the reader. Why can't I take the words on purchased printed paper and read them on my phone or PDA?

Sometimes I like to listen to music on my PDA (low quality MP3), and other times I like to listen to the same music in a lossless format (FLAC or straight from the CD). I can really do what I want with my music. When I buy a book I'd like similar abilities.

What might work is if you purchase the paperback book, you get a code on your receipt that allows you to go to the publishers website to download the ebook. The ebook would be DRM filled. But it would allow you to download it in all the major ebook formats as needed. That way it is harder to give away and you get the ebook free with your dead tree purchase.

HarryT · 09-04-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Once you burn these tunes to CD, you do not have a standard CD. You have one with a bunch of bits MISSING! AAC and Mp3 toss out bits from the audio. There is no way you can ever get them back. I won't ever pay for music where the company selling it decides to cheat me of the full set of bits that is on the CD. Then ripping this abomination CD and converting it to Apple Lossless is then another silly idea because it's not lossless. No music that isn't truly lossless should be converted to any lossless format.

Depends what you want to do with it.

I personally encode my CDs as 320 kbit MP3s because at that bit rate, and at my age, even on my extremely good HiFi system I can hear no difference between the MP3 and the original; as you get older, your ability to hear high frequencies significantly deteriorates and it's the high frequencies that MP3 encoding predominantly discards.

Absolutely no "harm" in subsequently burning CDs from that if you want to listen to the music in a "non HiFi" environment, such as in the car.

HarryT · 09-04-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What might work is if you purchase the paperback book, you get a code on your receipt that allows you to go to the publishers website to download the ebook. The ebook would be DRM filled. But it would allow you to download it in all the major ebook formats as needed. That way it is harder to give away and you get the ebook free with your dead tree purchase.

It rather defeats one of the main benefits of eBooks, however, which is the "instant gratification" aspect of downloads, if you have to go out and buy the physical book.

As I've said before, for me, the primary benefit of eBooks is their "space saving". I don't want a paper book - if I did, I'd go and buy the paper book rather than download the eBook.

JSWolf · 09-04-2007, 08:50 AM

The problem is that a lot of books don't have ebook versions. This way, if you go to say Sony Connect or MobiPocket and your books wasn't for sale, then you can go to the bookstore, buy the dead tree version, go home and download the ebook.

mogui · 09-04-2007, 08:52 AM

There must be a compression method that "loses" even more than that. It is popular because when I am in the States, I hear it often. This compression method takes out everything but thumping and shouting!

Aenea · 09-04-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

The only outcome for this that I can expect will be higher prices... after all, as far as Amazon is concerned, you're buying 2 books.

Hmmm, yeah, they probably will...

Xenophon · 09-04-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Once you burn these tunes to CD, you do not have a standard CD. You have one with a bunch of bits MISSING! AAC and Mp3 toss out bits from the audio. There is no way you can ever get them back. I won't ever pay for music where the company selling it decides to cheat me of the full set of bits that is on the CD. Then ripping this abomination CD and converting it to Apple Lossless is then another silly idea because it's not lossless. No music that isn't truly lossless should be converted to any lossless format.

Of course you're missing bits that would have been on a CD original. What you have is the best you can get from the lossy version you bought from the iTunes store. The only reason to then rip to Lossless is so that you don't lose still more of the sound you thought you were paying for.

The main reason I don't own many iTunes-purchased tracks is that I care too much about how the music sounds. And given how much I hate DRM, it's really saying something that DRM is the #2 reason I don't have more iTunes-store-bought tracks rather than the #1 reason. I mostly listen to classical and jazz. Most folks would consider me a pretty serious audiophile, although the true 'golden-ears' audiophiles would (and do!) sneer at my current system.

The advice I gave was for folks who weren't bothered by the lower fidelity they got when they purchased a track from iTunes. As I said, it's a way to avoid losing still more quality.

Xenophon

igorsk · 09-04-2007, 08:06 PM

If you're on Windows, you can use this little "workaround".
</shameless plug>

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-05-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that a lot of books don't have ebook versions. This way, if you go to say Sony Connect or MobiPocket and your books wasn't for sale, then you can go to the bookstore, buy the dead tree version, go home and download the ebook.

I'm with HarryT: I don't want 2 copies of the same book. I'd rather have the e-book. If there isn't one, I'll buy the paperback if I must. But I won't pay extra to get the paperback, and download an e-book later. They can just sell me the coupon for the e-book, and keep the paperback.

europas_ice · 09-05-2007, 01:51 AM

It seems to me though, that the marginal cost of making an ebook once someone has already made a pBook should be really small, at least if they do it right. I mean, everything's done on computers these days anyway, right? And they've got the text right there. Just dump it into a standard template and off you go. Extra time spent by flunky: 10 minutes. So I think you should be able to get a pBook + eBook for about the same price as the pBook. Maybe like $1 more.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 09-05-2007, 06:51 AM

Sure, it's cheap to make them... but again, no publisher is going to consider an e-book anything but another book, and they are going to price it accordingly (as they have been, at approximately book prices, give or take). They will consider a p-book and e-book combination 2 books, and their price will reflect that. So I'd expect such a package to be more than an additional dollar.

If I buy a package, I'll just end up throwing away or giving away the p-book. I'd rather just get and pay for one book, thanks. Less wasteful that way.

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09-04-2007, 08:50 AM	#233
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,792 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The problem is that a lot of books don't have ebook versions. This way, if you go to say Sony Connect or MobiPocket and your books wasn't for sale, then you can go to the bookstore, buy the dead tree version, go home and download the ebook.

09-04-2007, 08:52 AM	#234
mogui eNigma Posts: 503 Karma: 1335 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The Philippines Device: HTC G1 Android FBReader	There must be a compression method that "loses" even more than that. It is popular because when I am in the States, I hear it often. This compression method takes out everything but thumping and shouting!

09-04-2007, 08:06 PM	#237
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	If you're on Windows, you can use this little "workaround". </shameless plug>

09-05-2007, 01:51 AM	#239
europas_ice Groupie Posts: 190 Karma: 220 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Moscow, ID Device: iPhone 11 (Kindle app & iBooks)	It seems to me though, that the marginal cost of making an ebook once someone has already made a pBook should be really small, at least if they do it right. I mean, everything's done on computers these days anyway, right? And they've got the text right there. Just dump it into a standard template and off you go. Extra time spent by flunky: 10 minutes. So I think you should be able to get a pBook + eBook for about the same price as the pBook. Maybe like $1 more.

09-05-2007, 06:51 AM	#240
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Sure, it's cheap to make them... but again, no publisher is going to consider an e-book anything but another book, and they are going to price it accordingly (as they have been, at approximately book prices, give or take). They will consider a p-book and e-book combination 2 books, and their price will reflect that. So I'd expect such a package to be more than an additional dollar. If I buy a package, I'll just end up throwing away or giving away the p-book. I'd rather just get and pay for one book, thanks. Less wasteful that way.

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