Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by nguirado

Anyways, I think the issue is just choosing one approach over the other.

True. And I'm not claiming that far liberal approaches can't be a little bit flaky. But far conservative approaches, to me, are just plain insidious. So, if I had to make a choice between the two, it would be a very easy choice.

[kennyc]

Nguirado, I really don't think it's a matter of choosing one over the other. It's not like it's black and white, though that seems to be how you want to paint it.

There is all manner of grey. Education should have as little as possible bias, slant, politics or religion in it. It should provide the known facts as best as possible, it should encourage thought, asking questions and learning how to learn, how to get to the truth of any topic. That is my thought on the matter. It should be bias free which is that is meant by the term 'liberal education.'

[nguirado]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Nguirado, I really don't think it's a matter of choosing one over the other. It's not like it's black and white, though that seems to be how you want to paint it.

There is all manner of grey. Education should have as little as possible bias, slant, politics or religion in it. It should provide the known facts as best as possible, it should encourage thought, asking questions and learning how to learn, how to get to the truth of any topic. That is my thought on the matter. It should be bias free which is that is meant by the term 'liberal education.'

I agree with this. There's a middle road. Unfortunately, there's a little payback at work here. The CA approach was payback for the triumphal approach of history books up until the early sixties. And now, Texas wants to rid its books of PC.

[kennyc]

Probably truth in that.

[SameOldStory]

I've just finished reading about the issue through Google. That's easy enough to do.

What is hard to do is to find an unbiased view. More often than not, you find cherry picked views that show the writers own bias. The total effect is similar to someone trying to defend themselves from the question “Have you stopped beating you wife?”

The fact is that there was a little bias in the old textbooks, and they were trying to prevent bias in future textbooks. Isn’t the elimination of bias good? Not, apparently, if it gets in the way certain ideological passions.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

fact is that there was a little bias in the old textbooks, and they were trying to prevent bias in future textbooks. Isn’t the elimination of bias good? Not, apparently, if it gets in the way certain ideological passions.

The language used in the resolution suggests a certain ideological passion, and implies rather more than a correction for 'a little bias' (my emphases to highlight):

RESOLVED by the SBOE, that diverse reviewers have repeatedly documented gross pro-Islamic/anti-Christian distortions in Social Studies texts; that Social Studies TEKS cannot provide relief, because they tell what a course should cover, not all it should avoid; that under Texas Education Code §28.002(h)&(i), the SBOE must enforce "the basic democratic values of our state and national heritage;" that chronic partiality to one of the world's great religions, and animus against another, flout democratic values and the letter and spirit of this rule; that Texas Administrative Code §66.66(c)(4) provides, "Instructional materials may be rejected for content that clearly conflicts with the stated purpose of the Texas Education Code, §28.002(h);" and that the SBOE will reject future prejudicial Social Studies submissions that so offend Texas law.

Graham

[Greg Anos]

Vote with you feet?

[mrscoach]

Unless you have read the textbooks in question you cannot know if what one side or the other says is true or not. I have been in the schools, and I know that, overall, the claims are fairly true. I was even in a history classroom for a semester, so I had access to the texts. I cannot say about the current books, because they were adopted after I was looking at history books.

If Texas wants a conservative view, then that is THEIR perogative, it isn't up for debate for the rest of the US, or even the world. Do we tell California, Florida, New York or any other state what or how to teach? NO! The members of the SBOE are elected, not appointed. If the state isn't happy about their decisions they can vote them out. This resolution isn't binding, just a suggestion. Frankly, most of us are quite happy where we are and wouldn't live anywhere else, and appreciate the conservative leaning of the state.

For whoever it was that was blaming our governor, Perry, for the textbook issue. He had/has nothing to do with it. He is completely separate from the SBOE, and did not appoint the members.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by mrscoach

Unless you have read the textbooks in question you cannot know if what one side or the other says is true or not. I have been in the schools, and I know that, overall, the claims are fairly true. I was even in a history classroom for a semester, so I had access to the texts. I cannot say about the current books, because they were adopted after I was looking at history books.

If Texas wants a conservative view, then that is THEIR perogative, it isn't up for debate for the rest of the US, or even the world. Do we tell California, Florida, New York or any other state what or how to teach? NO! The members of the SBOE are elected, not appointed. If the state isn't happy about their decisions they can vote them out. This resolution isn't binding, just a suggestion. Frankly, most of us are quite happy where we are and wouldn't live anywhere else, and appreciate the conservative leaning of the state.

For whoever it was that was blaming our governor, Perry, for the textbook issue. He had/has nothing to do with it. He is completely separate from the SBOE, and did not appoint the members.

That wouldn't be as great a concern if it stayed in Texas, but the text book publishers don't want to publish one set of textbooks for Texas and another for the rest of the nation, and since Texas is so big and constitutes such a huge slice of the market share, as goes Texas, so goes the nation.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by mrscoach

If Texas wants a conservative view, then that is THEIR perogative, it isn't up for debate for the rest of the US, or even the world.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it's not the local representatives' prerogative to pass resolutions that they favour, but surely it is also reasonable that the rest of the US, and indeed those of us elsewhere in the world, should be allowed to debate the subject?

If not, then, by extension, nobody in Texas should be allowed to discuss their opinions on the world view taught, for example, in Iran.

Graham

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

That wouldn't be as great a concern if it stayed in Texas, but the text book publishers don't want to publish one set of textbooks for Texas and another for the rest of the nation, and since Texas is so big and constitutes such a huge slice of the market share, as goes Texas, so goes the nation.

Exactly which is why it becomes "everyone's" business in lieu of other solutions.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

That wouldn't be as great a concern if it stayed in Texas, but the text book publishers don't want to publish one set of textbooks for Texas and another for the rest of the nation, and since Texas is so big and constitutes such a huge slice of the market share, as goes Texas, so goes the nation.

That's exactly the problem, in mirror reverse. Is it ok to say, "as goes the rest of the nation, so should go Texas?" Because when you strip it down to the bare metal, that's the implication....

There's nothing to stop California, or New York or some consortium of states making the same stand as Texas, forcing the textbook publishers to tune more than one set of textbooks or lose out on a major market, a market that may even be bigger than the Texas market.

But then you wouldn't be forcing people to follow the party line (sic).

[mrscoach]

I get the feeling sometimes that people think Texas should consider other states when deciding what is taught here. We have a hard enough time deciding for here, don't throw a monkey wrench into it. In a state this large there are always SOME dissenting voices about everything. If you really want a say in Texas politics, then move here and have your voice.

It is not Texas fault we are so influential in the textbook market, but it is what it is. We are a large state, and do not plan on changing that fact. We are proud of the fact that "Everything's bigger in Texas". LOL

The other states can follow behind us, or can use what California uses, or convince the textbook publishers to make revisions for them.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mrscoach

I get the feeling sometimes that people think Texas should consider other states when deciding what is taught here. We have a hard enough time deciding for here, don't throw a monkey wrench into it. In a state this large there are always SOME dissenting voices about everything. If you really want a say in Texas politics, then move here and have your voice.

It is not Texas fault we are so influential in the textbook market, but it is what it is. We are a large state, and do not plan on changing that fact. We are proud of the fact that "Everything's bigger in Texas". LOL

The other states can follow behind us, or can use what California uses, or convince the textbook publishers to make revisions for them.

Well, as Uncle Ben said, "With great power, comes great responsibility"

Does Texas not feel a sense of responsibility to the rest of the country?

Do you really feel that what children in TX learn should be different from what children in MN or AK learn?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Does Texas not feel a sense of responsibility to the rest of the country?

I'm sure that Texas (inasmuch as Texas is an entity) would think its educational choices are fine ones for the entire nation. They don't *require* students in other places from learning what they want taught, but they're not going to consider "what if someone else doesn't want that?" when making their decisions.

Do you really feel that what children in TX learn should be different from what children in MN or AK learn?

1) YES. Children in *each* region should have their education tailored to the reality the have to deal with.

2) That doesn't mean they should be learning lies, but there is no way to teach schoolchildren "all of history" or even "all of US history," even if we had an agreed-on set of facts for that. Children growing up in TX need to know the US/Mexico border history much more than children growing up in Alaska do. Children growing up in Alaska need to know how axial tilt works to makes sense of the world around them; children in Texas can just know "the angle of the earth makes the days a bit shorter in winter." Children in MN need to know how political alliances with Native tribes and French and Canadian settlers influenced the growth of the region. And so on.

3) The big issue here isn't whether TX can set its own standards, but whether they're using government money to promote a religious ideology. And that's not something that can be established without seeing details from the books in question.