What do you do for a living?

[GeneS]

For those who believe there are too many retired people here, I'm sorry to report that I am among the ranks of the retired (that's sorry to report, not sorry to be retired) after working in human resources management and consulting for 35 years. Among other things, I fill time by serving on the board of a couple of not-for-profit organizations.

And I have plenty of time for reading.

[meromana]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Is 'heck' where people go who don't believe in Gosh?
Stitchawl

Love this!

--Maria

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Is 'heck' where people go who don't believe in Gosh?


Stitchawl

Dang right!

[GraceKrispy]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

What an odd mix. I don't want to get into a flame war about your insulting a few of these who are often the targets of snide remarks.

But do you really think teachers don't have to use all kinds of creativity to help students learn? I know there are lousy teachers out there...just like there are lousy artists. But some teachers are incredibly creative in their efforts to reach students.
*snip* So I admire anyone who can not only teach, but shape their methods to the way the student learns best...

Originally Posted by beppe

karma is on its way!

hehe, great minds think alike. I also gave karma for that one! "Teachers affect eternity, one can never know where their touch ends and another begins..." Hopefully that "touch" is a positive one. Creativity is a teacherʻs best friend. Many of my best lessons were the result of spontaneous inspiration. Good teachers think on their feet, and can change a lesson in a second to meet the needs of the students and the direction of the studentsʻ questions/comments. This is why itʻs such a shame that so many schools are turning to scripted programs that leave no room for creativity and flexibility.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

hehe, great minds think alike. I also gave karma for that one! "Teachers affect eternity, one can never know where their touch ends and another begins..." Hopefully that "touch" is a positive one. Creativity is a teacherʻs best friend. Many of my best lessons were the result of spontaneous inspiration. Good teachers think on their feet, and can change a lesson in a second to meet the needs of the students and the direction of the studentsʻ questions/comments. This is why itʻs such a shame that so many schools are turning to scripted programs that leave no room for creativity and flexibility.

... whow ...

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

hehe, great minds think alike. I also gave karma for that one! "Teachers affect eternity, one can never know where their touch ends and another begins..." Hopefully that "touch" is a positive one. Creativity is a teacherʻs best friend. Many of my best lessons were the result of spontaneous inspiration. Good teachers think on their feet, and can change a lesson in a second to meet the needs of the students and the direction of the studentsʻ questions/comments. This is why itʻs such a shame that so many schools are turning to scripted programs that leave no room for creativity and flexibility.

Agreed. I get so pissed off every time I think about how much pro athletes get paid and how little teachers get paid!!!!

We've GOT to do something!

[GeoffC]

I feel my days of trying to become an athlete are long gone !!!

[Druid_Elf]

Agreed. I get so pissed off every time I think about how much pro athletes get paid and how little teachers get paid!!!!

We've GOT to do something!

Ummm ... you have to take some things into considerations. First of all a pro athlete is most of the times done with his career at 35, a teacher not.
Secondly their parents have spent quite a lot of money when they were just starting their sports, so they need to recuperate that.
I get your frustration, and indeed some of the prices are ridicilous high (soccer players for 900 million euros as trasnfer sum and so on...) but don't take their "job" lightly. In serious sports the amount of training that goes into it is enormous. You basicly have no life between ages 4-20, except train, train and train some more.
They make sacrifices too. So don't think they have it easy and you hard They only have it easy when they are retired (at 35 )

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Druid_Elf

Ummm ... you have to take some things into considerations. First of all a pro athlete is most of the times done with his career at 35, a teacher not.
Secondly their parents have spent quite a lot of money when they were just starting their sports, so they need to recuperate that.
I get your frustration, and indeed some of the prices are ridicilous high (soccer players for 900 million euros as trasnfer sum and so on...) but don't take their "job" lightly. In serious sports the amount of training that goes into it is enormous. You basicly have no life between ages 4-20, except train, train and train some more.
They make sacrifices too. So don't think they have it easy and you hard They only have it easy when they are retired (at 35 )

I don't care. Education is way more important than sports!

[Druid_Elf]

That is a narrow vision.
If someone sais: "Religion is more important than education" does all the money need to go to religion ?
Education is indeed a basis for knowledge, but then again being an academic is not for everyone. Not all professions require you to be an expert in school.
And as millions of people watch sports, be glad that their are interesting sports. What else would they all do ?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Druid_Elf

That is a narrow vision.
If someone sais: "Religion is more important than education" does all the money need to go to religion ?
Education is indeed a basis for knowledge, but then again being an academic is not for everyone. Not all professions require you to be an expert in school.
And as millions of people watch sports, be glad that their are interesting sports. What else would they all do ?

Well certainly all things have their place, but the core of humanity and why we are where we are has to do with knowledge. We do not give teachers and the educational system enough support. When we kill ourselves off, it will be because of lack of education and knowledge, not for lack of Quarterbacks or Strikers.

[SameOldStory]

Good teachers in a good setting, pushing students to learn, is the goal.

What happens in the real world, I don't know.

Back in the late '90s I heard that most people 20 to 30 couldn't even say who were on what side in WWII.

Not believing this I asked a co-worker that I respected, "During world war 2, what side were the Germans on".

He said that they were on our side.

When I corrected him he said, "I mean the German people were on our side".

Along with night being spelled nite, relief being Rollaids, and truth being situational, I do wonder about education. It's enough that I have to fight my dyslexia. Watching the world around me sink lower and lower makes me depressed.

[jes1]

Originally Posted by GeneS

For those who believe there are too many retired people here, I'm sorry to report that I am among the ranks of the retired (that's sorry to report, not sorry to be retired) after working in human resources management and consulting for 35 years. Among other things, I fill time by serving on the board of a couple of not-for-profit organizations.

And I have plenty of time for reading.

The problem is not that there are too many retired people here, it is that there are not enough. There should be at least one more, then I would have lots more time to catch up on my TBR pile.

[GraceKrispy]

Kenny made some really great points! I agree with kenny that top celebrities (athletes, actors, singers etc) are paid disproportionately high amounts of money, hands-down. It scares me what this says about our society, actually. Sure, I like entertainment as much as the next guy, but am I really agreeing that what they do is worth 100x (+) what a good educator does? Do we want our children to go to adulthood with entertainment as the priority, or education? A good education teaches someone to think outside the box, to be a creator rather than a consumer. Entertainment, on the other hand, has created a society of consumers. It has its place, to be certain, but do we as a society really want consumerism to be its top priority? No wonder other countries are producing more innovative technology. The consumption of entertainment should be an extra to our daily lives, not the main point.

I put a lot of money into my own education, and Iʻm still paying it off. My salary certainly isnʻt helping me much in that regard. In fact, in the state in which I began my education, teachers get paid a whole (wait for it) $10 more per month for a masters over a bachelorʻs. Seeing as the teachers will have to put out the money to get the masters, do you think thatʻs good incentive? At $120 extra a year, how long will it take to pay off the extra degree?

Teacher burnout rate for good teachers is high, many teachers leave the field because of stress- students, parents, administrative, and community. At least one list had teaching listed as the #1 most stressful job. Many athletes go on to lucrative careers in the athletic world (commentator, trainer, coach) after their initial careers are over, if they are smart and play their cards right. I canʻt tell you how many gifted teachers Iʻve seen leave the field because of financial reasons, stress, or lack of respect/support. Good teachers are often given the most challenging classes year after year because they "can handle," while less effective teachers are given the easier classes. Yes, they can handle, but their sanity truly cannot. Somethingʻs going to give. Parents these days are sometimes the hardest part of the job. Why are we fighting against parents to get the kids to come to school and put effort into learning? Shouldnʻt we be on the same side?

I actually think a "free public education" works against us. People donʻt always value whatʻs freely given. In my experience, there are many parents who will pay big bucks for their kids to go to sporting events, movies, and spend money on clothing and music, but wonʻt buy the simplest of school supplies for their children. Teachers, who already are pretty low on the salary totem pole considering the education they have put the money into procuring, often put in the extra bucks to buy school supplies for the students who canʻt. I donʻt know of a lot of other occupations where people put in so much of their own money and extra time to benefit others, when reality is that a lot of teachers are scraping to make ends meet.

There are, without a doubt, some really sucky teachers out there. Iʻve worked with a few. I have resented the fact that they pull the same salary as me when my heart and soul is in my career and they are obviously there for a job and summers off. However, there are a lot of really awesome and life-changing teachers out there as well. Current economic times are seeing a lot of education monies being cut, and a lot of teachers being released from service. Youʻd think then the cream would rise to the top. But tenure practices and corruption at all levels impede that process. If education were more valued and higher paid (especially with regards to the amount of education and skill a teacher has), it may become a more desirable career path and attract even more quality teachers. The pay disparity as compared to cost of living amongst the various states is tremendous as well. I donʻt agree in a national pay scale that is equivalent, but one that is equivalent with regards to cost of living, perhaps.

Some of the current ideas of merit pay are ridiculous. Tying pay to test scores? I donʻt want my own child taught to the test! I want my child exposed to things that couldnʻt possibly be assessed on a multiple-choice test. I want my child to learn to love learning, to know how to find answers to questions, to think outside may actually encourage unscrupulous teachers to cheat on the test administration (Iʻve seen that happen, actually). Test scores and income level/level of parent education are inextricably tired together. Who is going to want to work in low-income areas, areas which often need the most gifted of teachers, if there is a fear they will be let go, or if they wonʻt be paid fairly for the work they put in?

Certainly education needs serious reform. Monies are not always used effectively, systems are sometimes in place that may prevent effective educators from moving up and less effective educators from getting support to improve. I shudder, though, when I read of educational reform that consists of getting rid of everyone and starting over. Really? Donʻt throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are some fantastic things being done by teachers with little support, money, and recognition. We donʻt get into this field for money or recognition, obviously, but would respect and support be too much to ask?

Obviously this is a huge soapbox issue for me. I could go on, but I wonʻt. Not in this post, at least.

[GeoffC]

poor education =
students of 15 years using a calculator to add

1 to 1 and get 2, and not be embarrassed about it ....

not knowing how to divide 100 by 10 ....

University graduate in English not being able to file away files alphabetically ....