Is this a horrible time to be a writer?

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to say.

lol. No, it wasn't. I've since fixed the typo. Dang, I hate doing retarded typoes like that. ^_^;;

Originally Posted by Joebill

I have seen a number of authors at the local sf convention.

A few old time authors came by, we kinda expected them to wear suit and tie part of the time.

But most of the new young authors dressed casually and sold books in the merchant room.

One guy never seemed to sell much, he wore an expensive, well it looked like it cost around $200 dollars, suit and he sold few books.

Most who go to that convention wear jeans. Nice, clean, untorn jeans would have been good for him, but with that suit, he seemed out of place. More a bank president than an author.

So paying attention to what is worn by the other authors and the convention members is always a good idea.

I have gone in everything from a polo and dress jeans to a tshirt and shorts depending on the expected clientèle. For most SF and Comic cons, casual dress is almost a requirement if you expect to sell anything. Why? Well, if they see you in a suit and tie, they'll think you're either too upbrow for their tastes, or your book is too expensive, or worse yet, too "fancy" to read. IE, to much Cabernet, and not enough Porterhouse.

You can also send the false impression that you're "above" your readers, and not "one of them". Case in point that wasn't a SF con, but rather a Linux con. One guy out of the entire group of vendors was there in a booth wearing a full suit. Hardly anyone stopped by despite having an awesome product. All the others dressed casual and people mobbed them.

[Steven Lake]

I won't be at Readercon, but I will be at Gencon and Dragoncon this year, so if you get a chance to stop by the merchant's room on either event, I'll be there.

[goodscoolwf]

I think the key point for this question is whether you like writing or not. As the essay says "This is the world in which the writer finds him or herself". You can realize your own worth through his way, and also you can obtainable gains at the same time. As fae as I'm concerned, the view about this qusetion depends on your own volition.

[Steven Lake]

Agreed goodscoolwf. If you're in it for the money, it's never a good time to be a writer. But if you're in it because you love doing it, then it's always a great time to be a writer. It's like the one guy said, "Even if I never earned a dime from doing this, I'd still do it my entire life." If you can't honestly say that about your writing, then you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Money should never be the reason for doing any kind of writing, but rather the extra reward for a job well done.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Agreed goodscoolwf. If you're in it for the money, it's never a good time to be a writer. But if you're in it because you love doing it, then it's always a great time to be a writer. .

I would say that it is a lot easier now to make money from writing than it has ever been in the past. Before you had to impress an agent, who then had to impress a publisher, both of which got about 95% of the profit between them. Or you could spend your life savings on self publishing and hope for the best. Now you can just write any old crap, put it on Smashwords (with nothing to pay), and wait for the money to roll in. You might not make enough to cover the time it takes to write, but it's not as if you have anything to lose.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I would say that it is a lot easier now to make money from writing than it has ever been in the past. Before you had to impress an agent, who then had to impress a publisher, both of which got about 95% of the profit between them. Or you could spend your life savings on self publishing and hope for the best. Now you can just write any old crap, put it on Smashwords (with nothing to pay), and wait for the money to roll in. You might not make enough to cover the time it takes to write, but it's not as if you have anything to lose.

Exactly!

This is what everyone seems to forget. The time it takes to write a work you'll have to double and triple that time in the search for an agent and publisher, and then you're looking at 6 - 18months before publication, and then they give you 90 days before they consign you to the bargain bin of the whole industry with no second chances if you're not profitable enough (and you better cross your fingers for any actual marketing) And after all that you'll be taking home 5% - 10% of the cover price. Plus you have to give them control over your copyright. Plus you have to deal with agents and editors and various other undesirables.

Or write it, put it up for sale and have it available forever.

[Vintage Season]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Speaking of cons, if anyone's at Readercon near Boston this weekend, look me up! I'm signing Saturday at 3.

Any chance you'll be at ReConStruction (a.k.a. The 10th Occasional North American Science Fiction Convention), 5-8 August in Raleigh, NC?

- M.

[DaringNovelist]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Exactly!

This is what everyone seems to forget. The time it takes to write a work you'll have to double and triple that time in the search for an agent and publisher, and then you're looking at 6 - 18months before publication, and then they give you 90 days before they consign you to the bargain bin of the whole industry with no second chances if you're not profitable enough (and you better cross your fingers for any actual marketing) And after all that you'll be taking home 5% - 10% of the cover price. Plus you have to give them control over your copyright. Plus you have to deal with agents and editors and various other undesirables.

Or write it, put it up for sale and have it available forever.

You know, I didn't think of it exactly that way, but that is exactly what made me decide to go Indie altogether a month ago. I'm not at all uncomfortable with the traditional publishing industry or it's methods. I'd just rather commit that time to writing more.

Camille

[Steven Lake]

Well put, MoeJoe. With the move towards non-traditional, and more dynamic publishing systems (such as PTP), it's a whole lot easier to be successful. The only thing you need to work hard at is marketing, and you're golden. It also helps to have a little up front cost too. And here's the real kick in the pants. Up until 10 years ago, the only real way to be hugely successful was to get picked up by a big publishing house, and sometimes (as someone else mentioned) even that wasn't a guarantee of success.

Now it's actually better in many ways to strike out on your own and do your own publishing, or do Pay to Publish (PTP). Why? Your chances of success are better, you retain full control of your book and all associated elements of it (with a few limited exceptions), and the available marketing tools provided by the internet are incredible. And if your book finds its way into the hands of the right person, the social web itself will more or less market your book for you.

The thing is though, in a world where everyone can get published, only the best will shine. So in some ways it's similar to the old system where the big houses picked those who would be successful and those who wouldn't. But instead of being forced to go through the nonsense of big house publishing, it's now the public at large who decide if you will be successful or not, which IMHO is the way it should be.

Why? I'd rather have 1 person who bought my book because it came highly recommended from a friend than have 10 people buy it because some marketing hype machine told them they should. Believe it or not, you will find that at the end of the day, the one friend recommendation will carry more power with it than all the marketing hype out there. And even if your growth is slow and steady, it sure beats the pump and dump success arc you'll see with a big marketing push that only runs for a limited time.

I should know, as I spent three years using mostly word of mouth marketing (I'd say 98% of my marketing was word of mouth) to drag my tiny little Linux site (raiden.net) from total obscurity up to being one of the top ten Linux sites on the web. That's a huge nod towards word of mouth marketing, which in today's age can be either your greatest ally, or worst enemy. But either way it'll be the strongest tool in your arsenal. And it'll also help you get better at writing, because if your book isn't being recommended, you need to stop and ask yourself, why? What are you doing wrong? And once you know that, you need to fix it. Either way, in the end you'll either get better or give up. Either way, what's best for you and your readers will be what wins out the day. And if quitting for now is the best thing for you, then do it.

Yes, that sounds a bit shocking, but think of it this way. If you take a little time away from actually publishing (not writing, mind you, just publishing) and work hard to improve your writing through experimental works, then when you finally get to that point where people can't wait for the next little experimental piece, then it's time once again to try your hand at publishing, because you now have reached a point where people *will* recommend you to their friends, and that right there is the one thing you want most.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Vintage Season

Any chance you'll be at ReConStruction (a.k.a. The 10th Occasional North American Science Fiction Convention), 5-8 August in Raleigh, NC?

- M.

Nope, not going, as I'll be at Gencon this year. However, depending on how that show goes, I may try my luck down at Reconstruction instead. Or I may split my presence between the two of them, depending on how things go.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Well put, MoeJoe. With the move towards non-traditional, and more dynamic publishing systems (such as PTP), it's a whole lot easier to be successful. The only thing you need to work hard at is marketing, and you're golden. It also helps to have a little up front cost too. And here's the real kick in the pants. Up until 10 years ago, the only real way to be hugely successful was to get picked up by a big publishing house, and sometimes (as someone else mentioned) even that wasn't a guarantee of success.

Now it's actually better in many ways to strike out on your own and do your own publishing, or do Pay to Publish (PTP). Why? Your chances of success are better, you retain full control of your book and all associated elements of it (with a few limited exceptions), and the available marketing tools provided by the internet are incredible. And if your book finds its way into the hands of the right person, the social web itself will more or less market your book for you.

The thing is though, in a world where everyone can get published, only the best will shine. So in some ways it's similar to the old system where the big houses picked those who would be successful and those who wouldn't. But instead of being forced to go through the nonsense of big house publishing, it's now the public at large who decide if you will be successful or not, which IMHO is the way it should be.

Why? I'd rather have 1 person who bought my book because it came highly recommended from a friend than have 10 people buy it because some marketing hype machine told them they should. Believe it or not, you will find that at the end of the day, the one friend recommendation will carry more power with it than all the marketing hype out there. And even if your growth is slow and steady, it sure beats the pump and dump success arc you'll see with a big marketing push that only runs for a limited time.

I should know, as I spent three years using mostly word of mouth marketing (I'd say 98% of my marketing was word of mouth) to drag my tiny little Linux site (raiden.net) from total obscurity up to being one of the top ten Linux sites on the web. That's a huge nod towards word of mouth marketing, which in today's age can be either your greatest ally, or worst enemy. But either way it'll be the strongest tool in your arsenal. And it'll also help you get better at writing, because if your book isn't being recommended, you need to stop and ask yourself, why? What are you doing wrong? And once you know that, you need to fix it. Either way, in the end you'll either get better or give up. Either way, what's best for you and your readers will be what wins out the day. And if quitting for now is the best thing for you, then do it.

Yes, that sounds a bit shocking, but think of it this way. If you take a little time away from actually publishing (not writing, mind you, just publishing) and work hard to improve your writing through experimental works, then when you finally get to that point where people can't wait for the next little experimental piece, then it's time once again to try your hand at publishing, because you now have reached a point where people *will* recommend you to their friends, and that right there is the one thing you want most.

The big thing for me is that I don't have anybody between me and a potential audience. It's all me from my fingers to your mind, and that's how it should be.

Why anybody would want to go through that whole tedious traditional publishing process (and yes I have been there), is beyond me. I also don't know why more genre writers aren't banding together and starting their own publishing houses. There's gold in them thar hills!

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Vintage Season

Any chance you'll be at ReConStruction (a.k.a. The 10th Occasional North American Science Fiction Convention), 5-8 August in Raleigh, NC?

- M.

Unfortunately, no. My circumstances don't permit much traveling to cons outside my area. Funny thing, though, my daughter's in Raleigh right now doing a math internship. I think that con falls on the weekend she's leaving.

[starrigger]

I need to take exception to the editor/agent/publisher bashing here. There's a good side and a bad side to pretty much everything, but those people have been enormously helpful to me in my career--and not just in economic terms, but in helping me stretch and improve as a writer. My editor, especially, works with me closely at certain stages of every book, and every book is better for it.

And while I have at times had issues with my publishers, the fact remains that they've fronted advance money that has enabled me to write, and they've been patient when I've encountered difficulties.

Certainly the publishing landscape is changing, but to portray editors, publishers, and agents as some kind of parasite on the writer is simply a disservice to truth--at least from my experience.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I need to take exception to the editor/agent/publisher bashing here. There's a good side and a bad side to pretty much everything, but those people have been enormously helpful to me in my career--and not just in economic terms, but in helping me stretch and improve as a writer. My editor, especially, works with me closely at certain stages of every book, and every book is better for it.

And while I have at times had issues with my publishers, the fact remains that they've fronted advance money that has enabled me to write, and they've been patient when I've encountered difficulties.

Certainly the publishing landscape is changing, but to portray editors, publishers, and agents as some kind of parasite on the writer is simply a disservice to truth--at least from my experience.

You've obviously had some good experiences with them. From my experiences I've come to regard them as a bunch of arseholes (freeloading arseholes quite a lot of the time) who get their jobs through university contacts and friendships above any kind of merit. They are the same as agents and producers in the music world, only more so. Vapid, ruthless and pointless within the digital realm. The sooner we're rid of them, the sooner we can start building a truly equal creative ecosystem between the audience and the creator.


Disclaimer- I'm English, so my experience is from an English perspective. Maybe agents and editors are all rosy-cheeked and rainbow coloured in the US and other countries, I wouldn't know.

[starrigger]

Well, I've never worked with an English editor, so can't comment there. My experience is with American SF editors. Don't know about the rosy cheeks, but they're all, as far as I can tell, people who really loved books and loved science fiction and who wanted to work with books--and started at lowly jobs for nothing pay, in hopes of one day getting a proper editor job for next-to-nothing pay. Of course, they're statistically as likely to be nice people or arseholes as people in any other line of work. But most of the ones I know are quite decent, quite smart, and a tribute to their species.