Court Rules That File-Sharing Service Infringed Copyrights

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Jaime_Astorga

Now, as to the OP... Limewire? Haha, I remember that. These days pirates have mostly moved onto torrents, though. I guess by the time the courts get around to legislating THAT, something else will have cropped up.

As I have mentioned in Europe it is easy to get everybody to pay -- they will just add a "creators surcharge" to your internet connection and to every device that can access the internet, if all else fails. That won't work in the US and Asia, though. There everyone else will have to foot the bill for the freeloaders.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Then why aren't you on my side arguing that copyrights need to be shorter if they expect anyone to respect them? Say it with me, copyright length is unreasonable and needs to be brought down to the point where the public domain doesn't suffer. Copyright in the US as it stands is unjust.

Because this is a thread about illegal file sharing. While I am all for shorter limits on copyrights, as well as fair use copying, I believe that distributing or downloading illegal is the much greater evil and has to be addressed first.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Because this is a thread about illegal file sharing. While I am all for shorter limits on copyrights, as well as fair use copying, I believe that distributing or downloading illegal is the much greater evil and has to be addressed first.

If copyright were shorter sharing a large number of those files would no longer be illegal. Also when one considers overly long copyrights to be unjust they have less reason to respect any copyright.
No doubt a great many file sharers just don't wish to pay for content. A great many more don't want to pay the asking price but might go lower, I use itunes myself for music but I'd probably impulse buy more often if the prices there were lower. A few may be fighting an unjust system. A few might be using p2p tools as a way to strip drm from things that they don't know how to do themselves. A few try before they buy. A few... A few... A few...

But you condemn them all, I won't and this is where things got nasty before and will probably set off a second round of attacks on me and counter attacks from me. Copyright is broken, I'd feel like a hypocrite if I sat back and said things against people who don't want to play nice when they've been treated badly. If they want to break an unjust law good for them, I've broken unjust laws myself.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Kenny, I have an interest in the topic of copyright, I don't steal and I do see beyond my own sociopathic self interest. What do you do other than call other people criminals for disagreeing with you? Go troll someone else.

If anyone is the troll, I think by the number and content of postings.....well you see what I mean....or others do at least.

Society is composed of all types. Please stick to the topic at hand instead of beating your same old drum.

[netseeker]

Dear members,

stay on topic and don't post unnecessary attacks and counter-attacks please. If you don't want read the posts by a certain poster you might want to make use of the ignore feature (in the User Control Panel).

Thank you.

Michael

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Or maybe digital publishing will just be a big bust and we'll go back to hardcopy only. And maybe encrypted hardcopy that requires special glasses to read or maybe......

I think there will always be a market for real books, just as there will always be a market for vinyl records. Ebooks will become basically just adverts for a deluxe hand signed print version made and sold by the writer with no corporate leech taking 90% of the proceeds. Even if they only sell 10% as many books, with 90% of their fans reading them for free, they would be no worse off than they are now.

But ebooks have been around for about 10 years now, and they are still only a tiny fraction of a percent of all books that are read. At this rate, it will be another 50 years or more before ebook piracy becomes as much of a drain on profit as used paperbacks are now. Plenty of time for anyone with a vested interest to come up with new ways of generating income from them.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think there will always be a market for real books, just as there will always be a market for vinyl records. Ebooks will become basically just adverts for a deluxe hand signed print version made and sold by the writer with no corporate leech taking 90% of the proceeds. Even if they only sell 10% as many books, with 90% of their fans reading them for free, they would be no worse off than they are now.

But ebooks have been around for about 10 years now, and they are still only a tiny fraction of a percent of all books that are read. At this rate, it will be another 50 years or more before ebook piracy becomes as much of a drain on profit as used paperbacks are now. Plenty of time for anyone with a vested interest to come up with new ways of generating income from them.

But this is where you logic fails. The Used book market does not affect the market in the same way as digital theft.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

I really don't see the idea of an author giving a live reading of their book taking off and being a big income source like concerts are for bands.
PKFFW

That is something that I would go to see, especially if they were reading something that is unavailable anywhere else. But no, things like that wouldn't really work as well for writers. Though there are a few who do it, especially writers of childrens books.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

That is something that I would go to see, especially if they were reading something that is unavailable anywhere else. But no, things like that wouldn't really work as well for writers. Though there are a few who do it, especially writers of childrens books.

A big part of selling books (at least at the top end) is book tours with readings and signings and meet and greet...

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think there will always be a market for real books, just as there will always be a market for vinyl records. Ebooks will become basically just adverts for a deluxe hand signed print version made and sold by the writer with no corporate leech taking 90% of the proceeds. Even if they only sell 10% as many books, with 90% of their fans reading them for free, they would be no worse off than they are now.

But ebooks have been around for about 10 years now, and they are still only a tiny fraction of a percent of all books that are read. At this rate, it will be another 50 years or more before ebook piracy becomes as much of a drain on profit as used paperbacks are now. Plenty of time for anyone with a vested interest to come up with new ways of generating income from them.

Of course any drain on profits is more than made up by the social benefit of having more things out there and available. I mean sure there are certain types out there who want to rape the pocketbooks of anyone who sees a printed word, on screen or elsewhere and doesn't instantly empty their wallet on the spot and then call them thieves to boot but sensible people would of course see that a handful less sales isn't the end of the world and a few more eyeballs on the books beats the hell out of being unknown. And, anyone interested in a legacy later on or just one who switches publishers might like some DRMless copies floating around, they may even download one themselves to save time and energy.

Think of it as the making lemonade scenario. It has to be better than just sucking on lemons but maybe some people prefer that, I dunno.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Maybe I am assigning those things.

It's just to me, the argument of "creators will always create", especially when coupled with the argument "the author needs to find ways to add value to their book" seems to indicate that the person making those arguments does not place any inherent value on the creation of the book itself.

Have a look around Smashwords and Lulu, and all the blognovel sites ( http://online-novels.blogspot.com/ ). Do you really think all those people are writing stories in order to make profit from them? "But they are all crap writers" you might think, but the next superstar writer will almost certainly come from there, for the reasons below.

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Having said that, every time we hear the arguments of "I would never have bought it anyway so no sale is lost" or "I'm downloading this one for free but fully intend to buy something else by the author in future" or "most downloaded books are never read so no sale is lost" or "it is digital and therefore easily copyable and therefore should be free" it makes the person making the argument seem like they just want free stuff.

I think some of those came from me, I certainly agree with them all. At this moment in time, I wouldn't pay for a book unless I was reasonably sure that I would like it, and therefore it would be good value for me. In most cases that means the writer is someone I am already familiar with, through reading other books by them.

So the only way a new (to me, not necessarily completely new) writer could ever make it onto my purchase list would be if I read something for free. It wouldn't necessarily need to be a whole book, half a book from Smashwords would do, but if it ended with "and then he woke up" I wouldn't be too pleased about that.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kajti

I download content I think I'll enjoy consuming, mr ploppy, and prefer to do so without expending money or effort, which I think makes my motivation at least partially financial. I never valued physical content for stuff like movies or music, because I don't think music or movies worth the cash, or worth the bother of leaving the house for. Books were worth that double expense; other content, not so much.

Given an internet connection that's being paid for anyway, digital content is available "free" for the downloading. Since I can download ebooks, audiobooks, comic books, audio and radio plays, TV shows from other countries or pay channels I don't get, and movies with minimal effort, I do so. Buying an ebook reader was worth the cost, since it meant I'd not have to pay for books in future, they now being convenient and "free". I never bought, or even tried, audiobooks before, but when they became accessible at no money and minimal effort, they were worth trying, and I found I liked them. Even for free, music and games aren't something I find worth downloading, and I rarely watch movies, but other family members like them.

Basically, I have lots of time, far less money, and more than a little social anxiety. Pirated content lets me fill my time without emptying my pockets, and do so without having to deal with unnerving people.

I already covered downloaders like you in an earlier post. You were probably doing it before it became mainstream, and will still be doing it after it is forced back underground. If you never paid for pirate content (on CDR, etc), you won't be saving anything so you won't have any extra income to spend on legitimate content.

It's unlikely you would ever pay for anything, so it is pointless worrying about lost income, and any perceived loss should just be factored into the price that other people pay. It sounds like all your entertainment budget goes onto devices for playing downloaded content, blank media, and faster internet access. All good for the economy, with I would guess a lot of it going into your local economy rather than the international economy.

Is there a price you would be prepared to pay for something like an ebook rather than spend the time it would take to look for a free copy?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Here is another idea that might come to Europe at some time in the near future (since they already have to pay a surcharge on all storage media that is then distributed to the media companies -- you have to pay even when you just buy a DVD to store business/personal files!). A huge surcharge on all internet connections. And then everybody will be legally free to just download whatever they want. And society pays. Someone always does. At the moment it is those of us who pay for content.

If the money generated was used to pay government grants to creators of music, books, etc to cover their living expenses, I would be in favour of that. If, as I suspect, it was just given to big businesses to prop them up, I would be against it. If I want to download Astronauts or Dog on a Rope mp3s I don't see why my contribution should go to Warner Bros while the bands I want to support get nothing.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

But this is where you logic fails. The Used book market does not affect the market in the same way as digital theft.

No, it affects it a lot more because it is so much larger. Writers and publishers don't make anything from the sale of second hand books, just as they don't make anything from what you call digital theft.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

If the money generated was used to pay government grants to creators of music, books, etc to cover their living expenses, I would be in favour of that. If, as I suspect, it was just given to big businesses to prop them up, I would be against it. If I want to download Astronauts or Dog on a Rope mp3s I don't see why my contribution should go to Warner Bros while the bands I want to support get nothing.

If the unauthorized downloads really become the "unstoppable tide" some predict then the outcome above that you do not want to happen is exactly what will happen. (Some preassigned key to distribute the money -- and do you think the big corporations will go empty handed?) Being forced upon us by the filesharers.