Amazon pulls MacMillan? - Page 15

rwizard · 01-31-2010, 05:15 PM

Apple no doubt negotiated this whole situation to their advantage. They know that publishers want their books sold at a higher price and Apple wants into the ebook/ebook reader market. So, they go to publishers and say "we will agree to charge more for ebooks if you renegotiate your contracts with Amazon and likely B&N to force them to charge more or force them to wait 6 months to a year to get the ebook. If they don't want to except these terms, don't worry. You may loose out on some sales in the short term, but more people will have an iPad than the entire current ebook market in relatively short order and since most of this market will not have been buyig ebooks previously, they won't even notice the price difference." And it will probably be true. Even if apple still allows the B&N and Amazon apps on the iPad (which is far from guaranteed), iBooks will come on the device and people new to ebooks will not even look for another option. Apple is using epub but not Adobe or B&N DRM, which will be incorporated into the Adobe SDK, according to Adobe. Consequently, just like anyone who has a large collection of iTunes from before they were being sold without DRM (and who does not want to go through the hassle of doing what it takes to remove the DRM), these people will be locked into apples products to read those books from then on. Since they will be looking at getting a large section of "Joe public" to buy the device, quickly expanding the market to 200% or more of the current entire ebook reader market, there will be plenty of customers to buy the books, even if those customers do no buy as many books as the current people in the ebook market.

I think that, at least for some publishers, this will be very tempting. And if the publishers are exclusively available on the iBook store, then without removing DRM you will likely only be able to read them on Apples products and posibly personal computers (probably through iTunes. (a side note, Itunes needs to be renamed iMedia or something at this point))

I think Apple has played this very smart. The publishers on the other hand will go from Amazon dictating terms to Apple dictating terms. I am not sure that this will put them in a better position than they are in currently in the long run.

DawnFalcon · 01-31-2010, 05:19 PM

That's only looking at the dedicated reader market, though. Which is a mistake.

guyanonymous · 01-31-2010, 05:19 PM

I suspect you're correct rwizard.

I also suspect that Amazon knows what they're talking about when they say that people don't want to and aren't willing to, as a whole, pay more than $10 for an e-book.

Personally, I'd love for Adobe to take their flash thing a step further and stop producing Photoshop, Premiere, etc, for the mac. That, I suspect, would be a kick in the family jewels as those products are one primary reasons many go with mac (despite their being on Windows as well).

Pardoz · 01-31-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Really? Sorry, I have to disagree. He's made a basic error (Actually, several).

Not least of which ignoring Macmillan's demonstrated insistence on new hardcover prices for e-books that were released in paperback six years ago.

Quote:

No, even the RIAA were not insane enough to use geographical restrictions.

Don't know if it was Apple or the RIAA, but I certainly recall running into "The product you have chosen is not available in your country" when iTunes first started up. Haven't tried to shop there in years, no idea if it still happens.

guyanonymous · 01-31-2010, 05:21 PM

It happens regularly to me here in Canada when viewing videos on news sites and tv network sites.

DawnFalcon · 01-31-2010, 05:23 PM

Well yes - News isn't music, though. So it's not something we can blame the RIAA for. (There's enough you can blame the news agencies for, honestly, but that really *is* another war)

guyanonymous · 01-31-2010, 05:26 PM

Where is Max Headroom when you need him.

lilac_jive · 01-31-2010, 05:27 PM

Whoever posted Kushiel's Avatar, it's $5.39 at the Sony store. I have no idea why it's so expensive at Fictionwise.

starrigger · 01-31-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Whoever posted Kushiel's Avatar, it's $5.39 at the Sony store. I have no idea why it's so expensive at Fictionwise.

Many of these pricing disparities are probably not by design, but by neglect. As I just said elsewhere, many unfortunate things happen in publishing due to neglect and inattention. My guess is, somebody forgot to make it somebody's job to keep tabs on price changes. Or the person whose job it is was overworked and didn't get to it.

The publishers really aren't very good at this yet. I think we can all agree on that.

Pardoz · 01-31-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Whoever posted Kushiel's Avatar, it's $5.39 at the Sony store. I have no idea why it's so expensive at Fictionwise.

According to Fictionwise, the prices are all set by the publishers, Fictionwise just acts as an agent.

mcl · 01-31-2010, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

According to Fictionwise, the prices are all set by the publishers, Fictionwise just acts as an agent.

Just as Amazon will act under Macmillan's new terms.

Yoshi 1080 · 01-31-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

Personally, I'd love for Adobe to take their flash thing a step further and stop producing Photoshop, Premiere, etc, for the mac. That, I suspect, would be a kick in the family jewels as those products are one primary reasons many go with mac (despite their being on Windows as well).

I don't think that would be a very smart move by Adobe.

kjk · 01-31-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

Personally, I'd love for Adobe to take their flash thing a step further and stop producing Photoshop, Premiere, etc, for the mac. That, I suspect, would be a kick in the family jewels as those products are one primary reasons many go with mac (despite their being on Windows as well).

Well, yeah, if Adobe were more interested in kicking in family jewels than making money

stustaff · 01-31-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi 1080

I don't think that would be a very smart move by Adobe.

Agreed very interesting btw how highly Apple pushed teh brushes app. thats starting to look like something comparable to a lite version of photoshop could be very nice on the iPad!

its only missing pressure sensing which to be fair isnt possible for the majority of users who only have a mouse and keyboard anyway.

Daithi · 01-31-2010, 06:40 PM

If I were Amazon, I too would tell Macmillan to pound sand. What Macmillan is demanding is that Amazon give up their position as a retailer and instead become one of Macmillan's agents. Macmillan will then set the price that Amazon is allowed to sell books. Not to mention that Macmillan wants to demand the price of ebooks be set at $15, which is the price at which Amazon typically sells the hardcover. Why on earth would Amazon agree to this arrangment? Oh yeah, because Apple is dumb enough to do so.

My prediction -- Ten years from now, Macmillan is in bankruptcy, and Amazon has a couple blockbuster novels by their own authors, who were attracted by Amazon's 70% royalties.

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01-31-2010, 05:15 PM	#211
rwizard Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 366 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Utah Device: iPhone, waiting for reviews on the Notionink Adam	Apple no doubt negotiated this whole situation to their advantage. They know that publishers want their books sold at a higher price and Apple wants into the ebook/ebook reader market. So, they go to publishers and say "we will agree to charge more for ebooks if you renegotiate your contracts with Amazon and likely B&N to force them to charge more or force them to wait 6 months to a year to get the ebook. If they don't want to except these terms, don't worry. You may loose out on some sales in the short term, but more people will have an iPad than the entire current ebook market in relatively short order and since most of this market will not have been buyig ebooks previously, they won't even notice the price difference." And it will probably be true. Even if apple still allows the B&N and Amazon apps on the iPad (which is far from guaranteed), iBooks will come on the device and people new to ebooks will not even look for another option. Apple is using epub but not Adobe or B&N DRM, which will be incorporated into the Adobe SDK, according to Adobe. Consequently, just like anyone who has a large collection of iTunes from before they were being sold without DRM (and who does not want to go through the hassle of doing what it takes to remove the DRM), these people will be locked into apples products to read those books from then on. Since they will be looking at getting a large section of "Joe public" to buy the device, quickly expanding the market to 200% or more of the current entire ebook reader market, there will be plenty of customers to buy the books, even if those customers do no buy as many books as the current people in the ebook market. I think that, at least for some publishers, this will be very tempting. And if the publishers are exclusively available on the iBook store, then without removing DRM you will likely only be able to read them on Apples products and posibly personal computers (probably through iTunes. (a side note, Itunes needs to be renamed iMedia or something at this point)) I think Apple has played this very smart. The publishers on the other hand will go from Amazon dictating terms to Apple dictating terms. I am not sure that this will put them in a better position than they are in currently in the long run.

01-31-2010, 05:19 PM	#212
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	That's only looking at the dedicated reader market, though. Which is a mistake.

01-31-2010, 05:19 PM	#213
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	I suspect you're correct rwizard. I also suspect that Amazon knows what they're talking about when they say that people don't want to and aren't willing to, as a whole, pay more than $10 for an e-book. Personally, I'd love for Adobe to take their flash thing a step further and stop producing Photoshop, Premiere, etc, for the mac. That, I suspect, would be a kick in the family jewels as those products are one primary reasons many go with mac (despite their being on Windows as well).

01-31-2010, 05:21 PM	#215
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	It happens regularly to me here in Canada when viewing videos on news sites and tv network sites.

01-31-2010, 05:23 PM	#216
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Well yes - News isn't music, though. So it's not something we can blame the RIAA for. (There's enough you can blame the news agencies for, honestly, but that really is another war)

01-31-2010, 05:26 PM	#217
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	Where is Max Headroom when you need him.

01-31-2010, 05:27 PM	#218
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	Whoever posted Kushiel's Avatar, it's $5.39 at the Sony store. I have no idea why it's so expensive at Fictionwise.

01-31-2010, 06:40 PM	#225
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	If I were Amazon, I too would tell Macmillan to pound sand. What Macmillan is demanding is that Amazon give up their position as a retailer and instead become one of Macmillan's agents. Macmillan will then set the price that Amazon is allowed to sell books. Not to mention that Macmillan wants to demand the price of ebooks be set at $15, which is the price at which Amazon typically sells the hardcover. Why on earth would Amazon agree to this arrangment? Oh yeah, because Apple is dumb enough to do so. My prediction -- Ten years from now, Macmillan is in bankruptcy, and Amazon has a couple blockbuster novels by their own authors, who were attracted by Amazon's 70% royalties.

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