KFX Format

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AaronShep

Kovid, my test is to submit new HTML files for books that are already listed with Enhanced Typesetting enabled. These files are immediately processed as KFX, no waiting. The next day, I ask Amazon to replace my purchased copy with the latest version, and that shows me the new file with the latest KFX processing. It's cumbersome, but it allows at least limited testing.

I think the reason for KFX is to be able to add and modify "secret sauce" ingredients and make them hard for competitors to copy -- though, so far, they've made a royal mess of it. I do like the new JPEG XR format. I have no doubt there are more changes coming, and they're just setting up the groundwork. And I also know they're working hard to get the bugs out.

There is no reason Amazon could not generate a different KF8 eBook for each device in order to have device specific images. Also given that Adobe can do the typesetting for ePub with no changes to the ePub, there's no reason Amazon could not have done the same for KF8. That way, all KF8 eBooks would support the enhanced typesetting from the start including side loaded KF8. Amazon could also have KF8 support JPEG XR. But, one thing Amazon is doing wrong is converting all images to JPEG XR. Only JPEG should be converted to JPEG XR.

Anyway, I don't think KFX is so Amazon can do more for the user. I think KFX is so the user cannot remove the DRM and/or convert to ePub.

[Barty]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If this was true, there's no reason it could not have been added the KF8. True, Amazon may be doing things we don't know about, but what we do know about could be done with KF8 instead of a new format.

Until we get more information saying that KF8 cannot do what Amazon is trying to do, then I'm still of the mind that KFX is an attempt to keep people living in a new walled garden.

Hasn't every kindle format been a nudge toward a more walled garden (along side any other book related features they wanted to add). Kfx is just the latest and so far tallest wall.

They have the best garden, their customers largely agree with them and are happy to stay there. They're going to leverage their advantage to gain more advantage.

What else do you expect them to do?

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Anyway, I don't think KFX is so Amazon can do more for the user. I think KFX is so the user cannot remove the DRM and/or convert to ePub.

I usually work in the other direction. The university library increasingly "shelves" recent, specialized titles as e-books. Evidently it contracts with a commercial firm or is a member of a consortium, and may not even "own" the book until I or someone else requests to borrow it. Usually it comes as an epub, which I then convert to a mobi via Calibre. (Occasionally it's a PDF. Never Kindle format.)

I continue to hope Amazon will not zero out the competition. It's unhealthy, and I doubt it will work. Nothing is forever, and every corporation and country eventually stumbles.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Anyway, I don't think KFX is so Amazon can do more for the user. I think KFX is so the user cannot remove the DRM and/or convert to ePub.

That statement makes no sense. If that were the reason, then Amazon wouldn't be allowing people to download the books as kf8 files for devices that can handle kfx.

I don't know why Amazon created the new format. Why did they create the kf8 format? You say that everything that kfx can do could have just been added to kf8, but as Hitch said, how do you KNOW everything that kfx can do?

Shari

[notimp]

Originally Posted by shalym

That statement makes no sense. If that were the reason, then Amazon wouldn't be allowing people to download the books as kf8 files for devices that can handle kfx.

They do what? Really - I had to look twice to identify what you are selling here. For some (kfx compatible) books - that get autodelivered as .kfx (kf10) on all recent and last gen Kindle devices, if you log into Amazons on site eBook management, and then select download to device, the file thats getting downloaded is an .azw3 (kf8). Hurray for that? So - when people, instead of using Amazons on Kindle Storefront, and instead of using Amazons "to the device" delivery, additionally introduce a PC into the mix, then log into an online interface a second time, then do about 10 clicks each time - they might still get the old, legacy fileformat delivered to them - which so far isnt impacted by all the horrible set changes kfx introduced.

Amazon in no way is advertising, this workflow - NOR is anyone in here, in fact I bet that the usual 90% of users dont even know it exists. Substract from that the iPad types, that cant even transfer downloaded books to Kindles.

Amazon is in no way even spelling out, that this is, what that "method" does - as nowhere in the process you are actually prompted to select or choose a file format - you CANT - as with all things Amazon, you press buttons, and sometimes it works until a switch gets flipped.

Originally Posted by shalym

I don't know why Amazon created the new format. Why did they create the kf8 format? You say that everything that kfx can do could have just been added to kf8, but as Hitch said, how do you KNOW everything that kfx can do?

Let me help you out here as well. Lets go through the motions here. Silent, same day release and rollout with an emphasis on new "feature addons" ("addons" because all of which could have been, and would have been better realized on the firmware side of things (Amazon is the only vendor that successfully has coupled hyphenation to a new closed file format - hey maybe ePub 2.0 didnt restrict features enough - with its successor not getting the wide distribution kfx is out to get)) burying the lead on the severe ecosystem changes that dont allow anyone but Amazon to create the new books (kfx) anymore (forget people in this forums, this also goes for authors and publishers), the choice not to release any authoring tools into the public, the choice to change the delivery defaults to the new format - without opt ins, opt outs or even asking. The choice to make the next Kindle format something only Amazon should be allowed to understand, create or distribute. Everyone of those is an entirely new aspect, some people in this forum fight hard against being dragged into the open.

The reply - that we shouldnt be angry with this mess starting to unfold, because - we "dont know what great juicy features may still lie withing kfx" - BEHOLD, the next pressrelease might offer us the chance to unlock a new one (why not coupled to a reaching a new facebook follower target?! (sarcasm)) - is so far removed from what is happening here, that had to squint, when I first read it. Hey, everyone - ever wanted to see reframing of an issue in action! Look no further!

Hey - Amazon could even ad another great feature today - and the automatically roll it out with the next firmware update - and none of us would ever know - because UNDERSTANDING THE FORMAT (and not only the DRM layer) IS PROHIBITED, not by chance, but by design. So instead of reframing this to be a great chance for us to start wondering again, and isnt anticipation the greatest part of life - with kfx, every day could feel like christmas - if only Amazon would unveil a new feature addon, whenever they feel like they need some publicity..

Let us please stick to - amazon has created an entirely new format, that only they can produce - that is designed, so only they can produce it - that already gets autodelivered (with no opt out) on all channels and devices that matter (in their business case) - with the very thing some in here think that we should cheer for being - that Amazon somewhere, somehow still might provide a legacy format, they could face out at any point in time - providing you introduce a second login, a second device, and ten more clicks per book to the occasion.

While the blogosphere and this forum isnt interested in even promoting the "workaround".

Ok, you did. Maybe. Without any details. May I applaud you?

[HarryT]

What on Earth are you talking about? The "transfer via PC" method of getting KF8 books has been discussed innumerable times here at MR.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by shalym

Why did they create the kf8 format?

Amazon created KF8 so they had an eBook format similar to ePub. That makes perfect sense. KFX makes no sense.

[notimp]

@HarryT: Maybe you have a point there. (Allthough not in regards to this being openly discussed as one of the few options to still get the legacy file format, and that people should do that.)

Still - how many quoteunquote normal Kindle users are actively using it? (Get out your PC, log into Amazon, go to manage your Kindle, search for the Book you bought, look for the submenu item to download the book to your device, select your Kindle, downlod the file, get your USB cable out, connect to the Kindle --

and if you dont do it now - Amazon could, at any time, flip the switch that makes those files still turn up as azw3's, at which point all books you havent done this with - are "lost " in that sense.

As supposed to the way it worked before - where you could entice people to do the switch to calibre without loosing anything, at any point in time - because, there was no race against time against the distribution of a format designed to...

Fill out the rest in your head.

Also, please dont ignore the rest of the points I brought forward.

[JSWolf]

The problem with that is that KFX is multiple files. Now that could change and if it does, than will the possibility be that we could USB download KFX.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by notimp

Still - how many quoteunquote normal Kindle users are actively using it? (Get out your PC, log into Amazon, go to manage your Kindle, search for the Book you bought, look for the submenu item to download the book to your device, select your Kindle, downlod the file, get your USB cable out, connect to the Kindle --

"Normal" users don't care what format their books are in. They buy a book, download it on their Kindle, and read it. They aren't interested in how easy it is to convert to other formats. The tiny, tiny minority of people who do care have a way of doing it, so I really don't see that there is a problem here.

[lkmiller]

No one is expecting anyone to be excited about some mysterious possible thing that KFX may or may not be able to do or do better than KF8.

You can also get KF8 files from Kindle for PC/Mac. If they flip the switch on that, then people will be able to find out more about KFX.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by notimp

They do what? Really - I had to look twice to identify what you are selling here. <snippage for brevity>
While the blogosphere and this forum isnt interested in even promoting the "workaround".

Ok, you did. Maybe. Without any details. May I applaud you?

Sorry--what "workaround?" And what's your point? Exactly? About the KFX format?

Hitch

[elborak]

Originally Posted by Hitch

what's your point? Exactly? About the KFX format?

You're not the only one scratching their head over that.

I'm half convinced he has points, but I've been struggling to parse them out of the rambling writing style he utilizes.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by notimp

Let us please stick to - amazon has created an entirely new format, that only they can produce - that is designed, so only they can produce it - that already gets autodelivered (with no opt out) on all channels and devices that matter (in their business case) - with the very thing some in here think that we should cheer for being - that Amazon somewhere, somehow still might provide a legacy format, they could face out at any point in time - providing you introduce a second login, a second device, and ten more clicks per book to the occasion.

I disagree with just about all of your points. Amazon doesn't sell MOBI or KF8 or KFX files. It sells books that can be read using Kindle apps and devices. The file formats used in the course of making that happen are an implementation detail that is irrelevant to almost all customers, authors and publishers.

Authors and publishers should be unconcerned with KFX. They just need to supply books to Amazon in one of the several intake formats that Amazon supports. Nothing has changed there and most of those intake formats are also supported by the other major e-book sellers.

Most customers should be unconcerned with KFX. They just want to buy and read a book with as little effort and unnecessary complexity as possible. They aren't worried about being able to read on non-sanctioned devices or the long-term availability of books beyond the lifetime of Amazon's ecosystem.

It used to be that you needed to know quite a bit about various formats, manual downloading, format conversion, and organization of files in order to read e-books. These days, the existence of closed e-book ecosystems from Amazon, Apple, B&N and Kobo eliminates all of those concerns for the majority who just want to read. It is mainly the early adopters of e-books and e-book collectors who are concerned with e-book formats and tools like calibre. Only those in this a small minority, like myself, are concerned with details such as KFX.

I don't feel that Amazon has any obligation to make breaking books out of their closed ecosystem easy to do. It does not surprise me when they close a loophole that allows books to be stripped of DRM and converted to other formats. I am glad that they have left some well-known ones open so far. It is the responsibility of those of us who wish to extricate our books to go through whatever steps are necessary to make it happen. If Amazon makes it too difficult they will loose our business. We are too few for that to matter to them.

[DaleDe]

I would agree that Amazon sells Books and eBooks but I disagree that authors are not interested in how the books look. They are very concerned with the presentation of the material, perhaps too much so sometimes. Publishers are also interested in the presentation of the material. Customers too are interested when they don't work right. Publishers and authors try and test the presentation of their material to ensure that the message they are trying to communicate is being presented properly. Much of the content of this forum is based on the need to know the limitations of the various formats for books and how best to deal with failures when the format doesn't allow the author's desired results.

Dale