Can e-Publishing Overcome Copyright Concerns? - Page 15

Greg Anos · 06-15-2008, 04:12 PM

None of the above. <shrug>

The problem is that they're all bad answers. They all have big downsides and little upsides.

What do you do when all the answers are bad answers?

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-15-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

None of the above. <shrug>

The problem is that they're all bad answers. They all have big downsides and little upsides.

What do you do when all the answers are bad answers?

1. Keep looking for good answers

2. Upend the table and go home

So... what are the good answers? (Before I upend the table.)

Greg Anos · 06-15-2008, 04:48 PM

I don't have a good answer. If I did, I'd be trumpeting all over the place. I guess we're stuck with #2.

I look back at the late 60's/early 70's and phreaking. (That was where - if you could produce the right tone, you could override the phone company's analog logics and steal long distance service. (Don't look at me, I was reading Dick and Jane at that time.)) Such an evil thing it was, that is was made a federal felony offence. 40 years later, I can talk to anybody in the world, voice to voice, as long as I want, for free (via Skype on an internet connection.) Should that be a felony? Technology steps on everyone. (Me too! That very same technology has moved my work overseas, and cut my pay effectively by 2/3.) It's painful to be stepped on. At the same time, technology has made us (in aggregate) richer, more comfortable, and longer lived. I can't see giving that up (even when I'm the one getting stepped on.)

Kajti · 06-15-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I have been told by multiple sources that at least 2 of my books are "on the Darknet," but never which ones...

Rot-13'd, they're Zvqtneq'f Zvyvgvn and Fby, if you care.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-15-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kajti

Rot-13'd, they're Zvqtneq'f Zvyvgvn and Fby, if you care.

Ah... code breaking! Thanks! (I'll get back to you...)

(45 seconds later...)

Ah, so. I'll have to think about the significance of those particular titles being darknetted.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-15-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I don't have a good answer. If I did, I'd be trumpeting all over the place. I guess we're stuck with #2.

Well, I'm not yet convinced that there aren't good answers out there, so I'm holding off on upending the table. (But maybe not for long, now that I know which of my 2 e-books have been Darknetted...)

One cannot answer a question, if one does not know the question. I think the reason we don't have any answers is, we're asking the wrong questions. "Can e-Publishing Overcome Copyright Concerns?" May be the wrong question entirely. Copyright is useless unless the public backs it up with deeds and supported laws. e-Publishing needs to win over the public, to solve their copyright concerns.

Maybe what we should be asking is: "Can publishing regain the trust and respect of the public, to guarantee an industry that is honest and beneficial to both sides?"

Trenien · 06-16-2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Well, I'm not yet convinced that there aren't good answers out there, so I'm holding off on upending the table. (But maybe not for long, now that I know which of my 2 e-books have been Darknetted...)

Ah, so now you can answer the question:

Have you noticed an anomaly in the number of sales for these two specific books?

HarryT · 06-16-2008, 08:47 AM

Why would there be an anomaly? Do you really think that the thieving bastards who download them from the darknet (my apologies - "copyright infringing bastards", for the purists among us

) would have gone out and bought them if they hadn't been available for illegal download? I'm afraid I don't. I can understand why someone would download a book if there isn't an eBook version available. I don't understand at all the "morals" of someone who'd illegally download something whose legal copies are as reasonably priced as Steve's are. That seems pretty "morally bankrupt" to me.

tompe · 06-16-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why would there be an anomaly? Do you really think that the thieving bastards who download them from the darknet (my apologies - "copyright infringing bastards", for the purists among us

) would have gone out and bought them if they hadn't been available for illegal download? I'm afraid I don't. I can understand why someone would download a book if there isn't an eBook version available. I don't understand at all the "morals" of someone who'd illegally download something whose legal copies are as reasonably priced as Steve's are. That seems pretty "morally bankrupt" to me.

Is that as morally bankrupt as not respecting the GPL and therefore committing copyright infringement?

And if there is no anomaly then it does not matter at all that the books are available on the darknet.

HarryT · 06-16-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

And if there is no anomaly then it does not matter at all that the books are available on the darknet.

That's a silly argument. That's like saying that it doesn't matter if you sneak into a cinema and watch the film without paying for it. After all, if there are empty seats, why does it matter? The film's going to be shown anyway.

Jellby · 06-16-2008, 11:37 AM

I guess there are many people who download things (books) just because "they can". They would not have bought the books if they were not illegally available and, moreover, they will never read them anyway.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-16-2008, 11:53 AM

After crunching the numbers, the only answer I can provide is inconclusive... that is, it shows no direct correlation to the number of sales of those two books, and the fact that they are Darknetted.

As it so happens, both books have slightly higher sales than the others... but only by a minute margin, too small to be conclusive in itself. The sales numbers of most of my books are roughly the same, across the board, as they have been since the SJB went online.

However, it should be noted that I am still a relative unknown, and my sales are still small. Someone with more renown, or more significant sales figures, may be a better source of information than I. (In other words, go ask Stephen King...)

Overall, I can say that the Darknetting of two of my e-books does not appear to have impacted my sales, positively OR negatively, in any significant way.

pilotbob · 06-16-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Overall, I can say that the Darknetting of two of my e-books does not appear to have impacted my sales, positively OR negatively, in any significant way.

You should darknet another one. This time, modify some of the text... cut out a chapter and put in text like... "You got this book from an unsavory web site. The author of this book has received no compensation. Please go to URL to buy the book so you will have a full and legitimate copy.

BOb

Greg Anos · 06-16-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

After crunching the numbers, the only answer I can provide is inconclusive... that is, it shows no direct correlation to the number of sales of those two books, and the fact that they are Darknetted.

As it so happens, both books have slightly higher sales than the others... but only by a minute margin, too small to be conclusive in itself. The sales numbers of most of my books are roughly the same, across the board, as they have been since the SJB went online.

However, it should be noted that I am still a relative unknown, and my sales are still small. Someone with more renown, or more significant sales figures, may be a better source of information than I. (In other words, go ask Stephen King...)

Overall, I can say that the Darknetting of two of my e-books does not appear to have impacted my sales, positively OR negatively, in any significant way.

It does, however, provide two important pieces of information about your works and the darknet.

1. The presence of your two works on the darknet did not cause a massive drop in sales for those works. That's a pretty direct refutation about the economic harm done to those works by the darknet.

2. The presence of your two works on the darknet did not provide a great increase to those two works legitimate sales. The advertising model for the darknet does not seem to work either.

That's all I can read from the data.

HarryT · 06-16-2008, 12:25 PM

Do you not think, though, that when an author like Steve is doing the "right thing" and making his books available at extremely reasonable prices, it's a damned shame that some people still want "something for nothing" and will choose to download them illegally rather than pay the extremely modest asking price for them?

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06-15-2008, 04:12 PM	#211
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,531 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	None of the above. <shrug> The problem is that they're all bad answers. They all have big downsides and little upsides. What do you do when all the answers are bad answers?

06-15-2008, 04:48 PM	#213
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,531 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	I don't have a good answer. If I did, I'd be trumpeting all over the place. I guess we're stuck with #2. I look back at the late 60's/early 70's and phreaking. (That was where - if you could produce the right tone, you could override the phone company's analog logics and steal long distance service. (Don't look at me, I was reading Dick and Jane at that time.)) Such an evil thing it was, that is was made a federal felony offence. 40 years later, I can talk to anybody in the world, voice to voice, as long as I want, for free (via Skype on an internet connection.) Should that be a felony? Technology steps on everyone. (Me too! That very same technology has moved my work overseas, and cut my pay effectively by 2/3.) It's painful to be stepped on. At the same time, technology has made us (in aggregate) richer, more comfortable, and longer lived. I can't see giving that up (even when I'm the one getting stepped on.)

06-16-2008, 08:47 AM	#218
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,549 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Why would there be an anomaly? Do you really think that the thieving bastards who download them from the darknet (my apologies - "copyright infringing bastards", for the purists among us ) would have gone out and bought them if they hadn't been available for illegal download? I'm afraid I don't. I can understand why someone would download a book if there isn't an eBook version available. I don't understand at all the "morals" of someone who'd illegally download something whose legal copies are as reasonably priced as Steve's are. That seems pretty "morally bankrupt" to me.

06-16-2008, 11:37 AM	#221
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,550 Karma: 19500001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	I guess there are many people who download things (books) just because "they can". They would not have bought the books if they were not illegally available and, moreover, they will never read them anyway.

06-16-2008, 11:53 AM	#222
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	After crunching the numbers, the only answer I can provide is inconclusive... that is, it shows no direct correlation to the number of sales of those two books, and the fact that they are Darknetted. As it so happens, both books have slightly higher sales than the others... but only by a minute margin, too small to be conclusive in itself. The sales numbers of most of my books are roughly the same, across the board, as they have been since the SJB went online. However, it should be noted that I am still a relative unknown, and my sales are still small. Someone with more renown, or more significant sales figures, may be a better source of information than I. (In other words, go ask Stephen King...) Overall, I can say that the Darknetting of two of my e-books does not appear to have impacted my sales, positively OR negatively, in any significant way.

06-16-2008, 12:25 PM	#225
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,549 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Do you not think, though, that when an author like Steve is doing the "right thing" and making his books available at extremely reasonable prices, it's a damned shame that some people still want "something for nothing" and will choose to download them illegally rather than pay the extremely modest asking price for them?

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