Untranslatable Words - Page 15

Taylor514ce · 05-27-2008, 12:48 PM

With an overlay of pleasure, right? You "look forward to seeing/meeting". Each time I visit Mobile Read, Je guette(?) ZP.

This link is interesting. To watch for as a cat watches for a mouse!

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

With an overlay of pleasure, right? You "look forward to seeing/meeting". Each time I visit Mobile Read, Je guette(?) ZP.

This link is interesting. To watch for as a cat watches for a mouse!

oh, nicely done ! "as a cat watches for a mouse," that is much closer than "to watch", definitely. to be honest i'm not sure about the overlay of pleasure, it's fairly neutral / context sensitive. "with anticipation", definitely. all senses on alert, possibly. "lie in wait for", yes.

and yes, "je guette, tu guettes, il guette;
nous guettons, vous guettez, ils guettent." it's a regular -er verb.

Taylor514ce · 05-27-2008, 12:54 PM

So which of us is the cat, and which the mouse?

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 12:55 PM

i'm pretty sure we each take turns...

GeoffC · 05-27-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i'm pretty sure we each take turns...

Well at least T keeps changing his Av, where's your next one ZP?

Taylor514ce · 05-27-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

oh, nicely done ! "as a cat watches for a mouse," that is much closer than "to watch", definitely. to be honest i'm not sure about the overlay of pleasure, it's fairly neutral / context sensitive. "with anticipation", definitely. all senses on alert, possibly. "lie in wait for", yes.

and yes, "je guette, tu guettes, il guette;
nous guettons, vous guettez, ils guettent." it's a regular -er verb.

We have "to stalk" as a verb, but stalking is the entire movement, the silent pacing, the crouch and wait, all of it. It seems guetter is just the lying in wait part.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

We have "to stalk" as a verb, but stalking is the entire movement, the silent pacing, the crouch and wait, all of it. It seems guetter is just the lying in wait part.

yesj, it's not nearly as active as "to stalk" ; you're not pursuing, just "lying in wait" until the object of your guet passes by...

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Well at least T keeps changing his Av, where's your next one ZP?

you're quite right, i'm so sorry ; the days have gotten away from me (again).

/me goes off to prepare next avvie.

GeoffC · 05-27-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

you're quite right, i'm so sorry ; the days have gotten away from me (again).

/me goes off to prepare next avvie.

That's a mighty fine wedding ring you have on that their finger...

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

That's a mighty fine wedding ring you have on that their finger...

"She wears a wedding ring her sister lent
To throw them off the scent
Just let them guess, it's what they expect..."

-- Elvis Costello, "Sulky Girl"

GeoffC · 05-27-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

"She wears a wedding ring her sister lent
To throw them off the scent
Just let them guess, it's what they expect..."

-- Elvis Costello, "Sulky Girl"

Canny move that ...

(I'm running out of chocolate, and I'm not allowed to give you anymore)

(yet)

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 04:29 PM

that's alright, i'll wait

meantime, i've another one for you :
"ringard (familier) : médiocre, démodé, nul" it's something which is out of date and sort of campy, but not intentionally... like a music video from the 1980's.

the dictionary suggests translating it with
"corny" (adjective)
"fuddy-duddy" (person)
but these both seem to be more embodiments of the concept itself than adequate translations. any suggestions ?

Taylor514ce · 05-27-2008, 04:47 PM

We occasionally use "demode", arching an eyebrow to indicate it's French. "Kitschy" maybe?

zelda_pinwheel · 05-27-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

We occasionally use "demode", arching an eyebrow to indicate it's French. "Kitschy" maybe?

well, démodé just means it's out of fashion, but there's not so much the embarassment factor. i'm not really sure about kitschy ; we say "kitsch" also, but it's a bit different... more ironic maybe ; you wouldn't mind having something "kitsch" at home, because it's un-hip enough to be cool (if you follow), whereas ringard you try to keep as far away from it as possible, usually (some exceptions apply, since it can be used in a vaguely affectionate way as well, and also because there are people who delight in that sort of thing and will go so far as to have theme nights in clubs and such...). then again they're all nuances on the same spectrum. it's not even very easy to define them in french, we just know what it means. i don't know, i'm going to go have dinner now.

nekokami · 05-27-2008, 05:51 PM

Well, here I am, late again as usual. I would suggest "time sink" for "chronophage," but as others have said, "chronophage" is itself a perfectly good word.

For my contribution, I suggest all the honorific endings in Japanese, e.g. -san, -kun, -chan, etc. I'm supposed to provide definitions, and someone whose Japanese is better than mine can feel free to correct me, but in general:

-san: used for someone who has status in the conversation. A politeness and respect marker. Nearest equivalent in English: prepending "Mr." or "Mrs." probably (though there are problems with "Mrs." and its meanings about marriage status that don't apply here). Usually appended to a surname, but I've seen it appended to given names, as well. (I think this would be a politeness marker within an in-group.) Used for both men and women.

-kun: Very difficult to define in English. I think I would try to explain it this way: used with someone whose status might be lower than yours, but to show that they are still in your "in-group." Also used as a sign of familiarity between people whose status might be similar, who are in the same in-group. (Note that in Japanese culture, status is never "equal.") Can be appended to either a surname or a given name; the latter is more familiar.

-chan: appended to a given name (sometimes a shortened version of a name) to indicate endearment or affection. Usually not used with adults, usually not used with males (but I've seen exceptions). Girls often put -chan after the names of their best friends when addressing them; boys might do this with girls, especially younger girls. Girls addressing boys in similar circumstances are most likely to use -kun instead... I think. Can be used with pets.

Then you have "sensei," "sempai", and "kohai", which can be used by themselves or can be appended after a name. Sensei means "teacher," but can be used with many people who are respected in a professional sense, i.e. not literally teachers, but someone one learns from. Sempai means "upper classman" and refers to a system of obligations between older and younger students (kohai). A sempai is still your sempai even after you have both graduated from whatever school you were in.

Edit: Oh, and I really like "troublé(e)". In the movie The Wind and the Lion, Sean Connery says, "Mrs. Petticaris, you trouble me." And I think he means it in some of the same ways that troublé(e) might mean. But I think "flustered" might be closer.

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05-27-2008, 12:48 PM	#211
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	With an overlay of pleasure, right? You "look forward to seeing/meeting". Each time I visit Mobile Read, Je guette(?) ZP. This link is interesting. To watch for as a cat watches for a mouse!

05-27-2008, 12:54 PM	#213
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	So which of us is the cat, and which the mouse?

05-27-2008, 12:55 PM	#214
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	i'm pretty sure we each take turns...

05-27-2008, 04:29 PM	#222
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	that's alright, i'll wait meantime, i've another one for you : "ringard (familier) : médiocre, démodé, nul" it's something which is out of date and sort of campy, but not intentionally... like a music video from the 1980's. the dictionary suggests translating it with "corny" (adjective) "fuddy-duddy" (person) but these both seem to be more embodiments of the concept itself than adequate translations. any suggestions ?

05-27-2008, 04:47 PM	#223
Taylor514ce Actively passive. Posts: 2,042 Karma: 478376 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: US Device: Sony PRS-505/LC	We occasionally use "demode", arching an eyebrow to indicate it's French. "Kitschy" maybe?

05-27-2008, 05:51 PM	#225
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Well, here I am, late again as usual. I would suggest "time sink" for "chronophage," but as others have said, "chronophage" is itself a perfectly good word. For my contribution, I suggest all the honorific endings in Japanese, e.g. -san, -kun, -chan, etc. I'm supposed to provide definitions, and someone whose Japanese is better than mine can feel free to correct me, but in general: -san: used for someone who has status in the conversation. A politeness and respect marker. Nearest equivalent in English: prepending "Mr." or "Mrs." probably (though there are problems with "Mrs." and its meanings about marriage status that don't apply here). Usually appended to a surname, but I've seen it appended to given names, as well. (I think this would be a politeness marker within an in-group.) Used for both men and women. -kun: Very difficult to define in English. I think I would try to explain it this way: used with someone whose status might be lower than yours, but to show that they are still in your "in-group." Also used as a sign of familiarity between people whose status might be similar, who are in the same in-group. (Note that in Japanese culture, status is never "equal.") Can be appended to either a surname or a given name; the latter is more familiar. -chan: appended to a given name (sometimes a shortened version of a name) to indicate endearment or affection. Usually not used with adults, usually not used with males (but I've seen exceptions). Girls often put -chan after the names of their best friends when addressing them; boys might do this with girls, especially younger girls. Girls addressing boys in similar circumstances are most likely to use -kun instead... I think. Can be used with pets. Then you have "sensei," "sempai", and "kohai", which can be used by themselves or can be appended after a name. Sensei means "teacher," but can be used with many people who are respected in a professional sense, i.e. not literally teachers, but someone one learns from. Sempai means "upper classman" and refers to a system of obligations between older and younger students (kohai). A sempai is still your sempai even after you have both graduated from whatever school you were in. Edit: Oh, and I really like "troublé(e)". In the movie The Wind and the Lion, Sean Connery says, "Mrs. Petticaris, you trouble me." And I think he means it in some of the same ways that troublé(e) might mean. But I think "flustered" might be closer.

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