DRM Good or Bad?

[frahse]

Speaking as an author:

I think DRM is good.

You can discuss the case of a physical book being loaned and borrowed by individuals, being lent by libraries, being given away, sold at yard sales or book fairs, being sold on line for 1 cent + $3.99 shipping and handling (by the way there are cheaper rates), being sold in the Dollar Store for a dollar or in Family Dollar or Dollar General for $1.25 and so on. I will admit that I avail myself of many of those outlets to obtain material cheaply, and then I usually give it to one of the Thrift Stores. (I have never sold a book online. The return is too meager to take the time.)

You can talk about downloading books illegally online.

You can spout on and on about convenience, about rights, about backups, about surmounting all the systems put in place to protect books and on how to circumvent them.

Still for me as an author, I like DRM. I think it helps me.
It is a bottom line thing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by frahse

Speaking as an author:

I think DRM is good.

You can discuss the case of a physical book being loaned and borrowed by individuals, being lent by libraries, being given away, sold at yard sales or book fairs, being sold on line for 1 cent + $3.99 shipping and handling (by the way there are cheaper rates), being sold in the Dollar Store for a dollar or in Family Dollar or Dollar General for $1.25 and so on. I will admit that I avail myself of many of those outlets to obtain material cheaply, and then I usually give it to one of the Thrift Stores. (I have never sold a book online. The return is too meager to take the time.)

You can talk about downloading books illegally online.

You can spout on and on about convenience, about rights, about backups, about surmounting all the systems put in place to protect books and on how to circumvent them.

Still for me as an author, I like DRM. I think it helps me.
It is a bottom line thing.

You obviously don't care about your readers.

[QuantumIguana]

DRM doesn't help you. It doesn't stop anyone from making an illegal copy.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The insistence that only the author (or authorized agents, like the publisher) are allowed to declare a price on access to content flies against thousands of years of literary and other entertainment culture.

Shakespeare probably had enough clout, as part-owner of the Globe Theatre, to influence seat pricing. And he didn't allow print publication in his lifetime, although there were inferior plagiarized versions.

There surely are comparable examples in film, such as when the screenwriter, director, and producer are the same person.

Going beyond text entertainment culture, what about magic shows?

DRM potentially gives to literature rights traditionally enjoyed by other entertainment media.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You obviously don't care about your readers.

I'm a reader and I'm fine with DRM. I doubt that library eBook borrowing can work without it. And I doubt that a model where the entire cost of DRM infrastructure has to be borne by libraries will work.

If someone could invent an unbreakable DRM scheme, I think that authors would make more money per book and thus be able to spend more time perfecting them. Breakable DRM is of less value, but most people will respect it.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by frahse

Still for me as an author, I like DRM. I think it helps me.
It is a bottom line thing.

Bottom line: In the last few years, Patricia Ryan has gotten ~$30 from me, minus whatever Smashwords takes.

Ellen O'Connell has gotten $12 from me, $3 for each book she offers, and will be getting another purchase as soon as she's produced another book, regardless of what it contains.

ZA Maxfield has gotten about $20 from me, minus whatever cuts her publisher takes.

LA Witt/Lauren Gallagher has gotten a bit more than that.

The estate of Marion Zimmer Bradley has gotten about $30 (minus, you know) from me for short stories from out-of-print magazines and anthologies.

Jean Lorrah & Jacqueline Lichtenberg: $50 (etc.); I have no idea how they split royalties for combined works.

You have gotten $0 from me. As long as your works are DRMd, you will continue to get $0 from me. Also, I won't be recommending your works to other readers, because I haven't read them, because they're offered in formats I find inaccessible.

How is DRM helping your bottom line? Who is buying your work because of DRM, who wouldn't buy it otherwise?

[pshute]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I think the problems with DRM are mainly cost and implementation.

People have said they object to paying for an ebook, then not being able to lend it to someone, or to read it on a different device. Fair enough, so they should be priced to compensate for this. They're usually cheaper than a printed copy, but I don't know if the difference is enough. And if I could buy a second copy for a different device much more cheaply, I might not mind.

Others have complained that they can't get a copy that works on their device. This is an implementation problem. I don't know what it would take, but DRM ebooks should be available in versions for any device. DRM is being used to protect publishers and distributors, not authors, and it's this that's causing availablilty problems.

Then there's the argument that it's pointless anyway since DRM can be easily broken. That's another implementation problem - to be effective it needs to be unbreakable. But even with things as they are, the argument isn't quite true. Lots of people don't want to try to learn how to break DRM. I haven't tried yet, but I'm guessing that if I do then I'll end up having to download some piece of software to do it that might or might not be spyware, etc.

I'm not convinced that simply publishing DRM free will make more sales. It might for some niche subjects because it will be advertised by word of mouth. But for popular stuff, so many people will just steal it. People do it now with printed books by photocopying them, but it's so hard that most won't bother. Copying a file is so easy, you'd feel stupid paying for it.

Conclusion: DRM's a good idea, but not the way it's implemented now.

[Lazer]

I'm quite positive that the DRM status of my one ebook has not hurt its sales or its sisters print version. (You can argue that I don't have the data and you're right, I don't, and neither do you.) My second soon-to-be published book will also be available in both print and DRMd ebook. Obviously there is an anti-DRM culture out there and frankly my books are are not going to fit in that culture –again, you're not my market –DRMd or not. If I'm wrong, buy the print version, loan it out, put it on your shelf.

My significant other and I share our Amazon account. I read about half of what she does and visa versa. Of the sixty or so ebooks I've read, they will be available on my Amazon account for when my eReader breaks and I move on to the next device. Even though I reread a book about every decade or so.

I have no idea how many DRM'd ebooks were sold today on Amazon and Barnes & Noble but it was significant –thousands? I'm positive that few if any of buyers flinched today because of DRM. I don't see Amazon filing for bankruptcy anytime soon over the use of DRMd ebooks.

There are obviously two camps with this issue and I doubt any amount of passionate arguing on a forum is going to change anybody's opinion. Elfwreck and ScalyFreak: Follow your compass, I'll follow mine. And cheers to both camps.

[gmw]

(I know I said I wasn't going to play any more, but sometimes I can't help myself.) This thread should have been split at some point in the past because there are really two discussions going on here:

One is about DRM. Not whether it's effective, there seems consensus that it is not, but - as per the title of the thread - whether it is good or bad for the author and/or publisher. I suspect the reality is that DRM, even in its current form, does serve a purpose: it does stop a (large?) portion of the casual forms of sharing that would otherwise take place without anyone even thinking about copyright; many people just don't know nor care. Yes it can be unfair to the reader, but as so often happens in such situations, it is hard to get the provider to worry about issues that don't effect them directly.

As to the overall effect of DRM on the author in terms of revenue? I am not in a position to say, I'm guessing that the publishers have a better idea than I do (I certainly hope so). The anecdotal evidence of a few people here suggesting that they'll pay for non-DRM books, but they'll only ever obtain pirated versions of DRM books (despite how easily they tell us DRM can be removed) I do not find very convincing, in fact it sounds quite contrary (a self-deception used to justify not paying for a book, what other explanation fits?).


The other discussion is about piracy. This applies as much to DRM protected books as it does to non-DRM protected, the main difference between the two situations was noted above and gives DRM its reason for continued existence. (You could even argue that DRM is there for the readers benefit, protecting them from accidentally becoming pirates... but I don't really expect you to swallow that one. ) As previously noted the term "piracy" is pretty loose, I prefer to use it only for the illegal distributors, rather than recipients. (Like the difference between thieves and receivers of stolen goods.)

In that light, listening to the various justifications that people offer for piracy reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Fat Tony justifies cigarette smuggling. (Paraphrased: "Is it a crime to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? No sir. Now what if they would prefer something other than bread, say, cigarettes - would that be a crime? No sir. And what if, instead of giving them away, you sell them for a price that's practically giving them away, would that be a crime? Hell no!")

[Justin Nemo]

Originally Posted by gmw

As to the overall effect of DRM on the author in terms of revenue? I am not in a position to say, I'm guessing that the publishers have a better idea than I do (I certainly hope so). The anecdotal evidence of a few people here suggesting that they'll pay for non-DRM books, but they'll only ever obtain pirated versions of DRM books (despite how easily they tell us DRM can be removed) I do not find very convincing, in fact it sounds quite contrary (a self-deception used to justify not paying for a book, what other explanation fits?).


The other discussion is about piracy. This applies as much to DRM protected books as it does to non-DRM protected, the main difference between the two situations was noted above and gives DRM its reason for continued existence. (You could even argue that DRM is there for the readers benefit, protecting them from accidentally becoming pirates... but I don't really expect you to swallow that one. ) As previously noted the term "piracy" is pretty loose, I prefer to use it only for the illegal distributors, rather than recipients. (Like the difference between thieves and receivers of stolen goods.)

In that light, listening to the various justifications that people offer for piracy reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Fat Tony justifies cigarette smuggling. (Paraphrased: "Is it a crime to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? No sir. Now what if they would prefer something other than bread, say, cigarettes - would that be a crime? No sir. And what if, instead of giving them away, you sell them for a price that's practically giving them away, would that be a crime? Hell no!")

I don't think that anyone here is trying to justify piracy. They are merely venting their spleens about a system that is inherently unfair to the end user and one that they can do nothing about.

With regard to piracy, whichever way you look at it. Necessity really is the mother of invention. If these blocks weren't in place, people wouldn't have to find ways to get around them.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I'm a reader and I'm fine with DRM. I doubt that library eBook borrowing can work without it. And I doubt that a model where the entire cost of DRM infrastructure has to be borne by libraries will work.

Gah, it bugs me when people say this. Very loudly:

LIBRARIES ALREADY HAVE NON-DRM'd eBOOKS.

Go to your Overdrive library. Do an advanced search. Under "format" there should be an option called "Open Epub". Those books don't have DRM.

Carina Press, who is a subsidiary of Harlequin, offers their eBooks to libraries DRM free.

To World: Please, please, please, please, please stop saying that library eBook borrowing "needs" DRM in order to work. We have existing companies who feel differently and do differently, and you're essentially pretending they don't exist.

Now, maybe the publisher will insist on it before they will sell to libraries, sure. But that's not a "needed in order to work", that's a "needed in order to entice publishers to sell". Very different things.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Gah, it bugs me when people say this. Very loudly:

LIBRARIES ALREADY HAVE NON-DRM'd eBOOKS.

Go to your Overdrive library. Do an advanced search. Under "format" there should be an option called "Open Epub". Those books don't have DRM.

I should have qualified my statement to say I was talking about the sorts of copyrighted books I personally read. None of the roughly twenty Overdrive US public library books I have read in the six months since US library Kindle borrowing began were available in Open EPUB.

I just went to search.overdrive.com, where I usually start an eBook library search since I have access to several public libraries. Using the pull-down menu choices "Media Format: Open EPUB" and "Subject: History," I found no library titles. Results were the same for "Subject: Physics" and "Subject: Biography & Autobiography."

Then I tried "Subject: Mystery" and found eight Open EPUB titles. Clicking the first four, none are available at the New York Public Library, but Philadelphia has two.

Originally Posted by anamardoll

But that's not a "needed in order to work", that's a "needed in order to entice publishers to sell".

I was led to this by a Philadelphia "Click here for help with Open EPUB eBooks" link:

Opne eBooks cannot be returned early. Only DRM-protected eBooks have this option.

So they may work after a fashion. What happens to an Open EPUB book on the due date? Would I be reminded, on a Nook, to delete the title?

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I was led to this by a Philadelphia "Click here for help with Open EPUB eBooks" link:

Opne eBooks cannot be returned early. Only DRM-protected eBooks have this option.

So they may work after a fashion. What happens to an Open EPUB book on the due date? Would I be reminded, on a Nook, to delete the title?

They can't be "returned early" because there is nothing to "return". It's not like Adobe where there's a server carefully monitoring who has what license GUID. They're non-DRM'd books. They don't have due dates. The only "due date" is on the FLP system saying that you have it, so as to keep a million people from checking out the book on the same day. But you delete them from your device when you're done -- it's on the honor system.

This is a pet peeve of mine: people who don't robustly use the online library systems in place (20 books? I have almost one hundred on my FLP Wish List! ) make sweeping statements about DRM being "necessary" for it to work, but they have never ever checked out an Open EPUB. Carina (Romance, Fantasy, Steampunk, SciFi, etc.) has zillions of titles. JA Konrath's books (Thriller) are Open EPUB. The O'Reilly technical manuals are, iirc, Open EPUB. They're all doing fine!

DRM is not even remotely necessary for libraries to function. It may be desirable, but that's a matter of opinion. (One I don't agree with.)

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

They can't be "returned early" because there is nothing to "return". It's not like Adobe where there's a server carefully monitoring who has what license GUID. They're non-DRM'd books. They don't have due dates. The only "due date" is on the FLP system saying that you have it, so as to keep a million people from checking out the book on the same day. But you delete them from your device when you're done -- it's on the honor system.

This is a pet peeve of mine: people who don't robustly use the online library systems in place (20 books? I have almost one hundred on my FLP Wish List! ) make sweeping statements about DRM being "necessary" for it to work, but they have never ever checked out an Open EPUB. Carina (Romance, Fantasy, Steampunk, SciFi, etc.) has zillions of titles. JA Konrath's books (Thriller) are Open EPUB. The O'Reilly technical manuals are, iirc, Open EPUB. They're all doing fine!

DRM is not even remotely necessary for libraries to function. It may be desirable, but that's a matter of opinion. (One I don't agree with.)

That's amazing. I often do return books early that I borrow, even ones that I have on the 7 day loan.

I searched my library and they do have small selection of open epub books!

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

That's amazing. I often do return books early that I borrow, even ones that I have on the 7 day loan.

I searched my library and they do have small selection of open epub books!

Yep.

FLP has 288 Open EPUB, in contrast to their 10,209 Adobe EPUB, so it's definitely not a huge percentage but I definitely think we'll see more as the traditional publishers continue to shun libraries.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

it's on the honor system.

If we have any people on the board with lots of money they don't know what to do with, they could put the book borrowing honor system to the test. Fund a study where someone picks a branch public library somewhere, and eliminate checkout. Just put up a sign saying that patrons are asked to bring back all books within three weeks. Then see in a couple of months how many books are left in that library, with the philanthropist funding replacement.

I of course think that the philanthropist is going to be out a boatload of money.

If you are going to call for Overdrive and libraries to embrace Open EPUB, consistency requires opposing the whole system of book checkout. Having to stand in line to check out paper books is certainly more of an inconvenience to me than Overdrive using DRM.