Reasons I'm not getting a Kindle but the Sony 505 instead. - Page 15

JSWolf · 01-19-2008, 08:32 PM

I would say getting screwed is when you try to go back to Amazon to download the eBook(s) you have purchased from them only to find they no longer are available for download and the only way to get them back is to go to another shop and purchase them again.

Alisa · 01-19-2008, 08:38 PM

I understand you think it's ugly but I think it's a bit of an overstatement to call it a "failure" as a device. It's amazingly easy to use. The feel in the hand and the smooth action of the buttons are way nicer to me than the Sony. I know Sony is a sleeker gadget. It's way prettier. I wouldn't mind if the Kindle were thinner and a different color, but the interface and feature set are WAY better. Holding it and flipping through pages is much more natural feeling than the Sony. Ultimately, though, it came down to features for me. If Sony had what I consider basic features such as search and dictionary lookup, I'd have one. They didn't manage to come up with those things in over a year. Whispernet is cool and all but people act like it's just a frill and the only differentiating factor. It's not. The first time I saw the 500 I wanted it. I thought the interface was a bit cumbersome but I loved the e-ink screen. When I found out you couldn't search text let alone use a dictionary, I really was appalled. I figured they must eventually add such a basic feature. How could they not? You have text. You have some basic computing power. Duh. Make the thing do more than just let you look at the text. Take a book to the next level. Nope. To me, both Sony's were failures as devices because they don't deliver simple, basic features. Pretty isn't enough for me when the insides show a complete lack of imagination. I was close to buying the Cybook because at least it had a dictionary. The Kindle is the first device I've found that has the basic feature set I want. I hope it lights a fire under Sony's butt to improve their device because I want to see some competition in this market. I don't want Amazon to be the only game in town.

srharris19 · 01-19-2008, 09:09 PM

The Sony is nicer looking and feels better in the hands. But aside from the wireless, I think the annotation and searching are really valuable features on the Kindle.

rationalbiker · 01-19-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I would say getting screwed is when you try to go back to Amazon to download the eBook(s) you have purchased from them only to find they no longer are available for download and the only way to get them back is to go to another shop and purchase them again.

Okay, thanks for sharing that with me.

rationalbiker · 01-19-2008, 09:17 PM

I'm a function over form guy myself. That said, I don't share the opinion that the device is ugly. I actually like the appearance of the Kindle.

astra · 01-20-2008, 08:30 AM

In my previous post I didn't say: Kindle is ugly.
I said it is a failure as a dedicated ebook reader.

Yes, Kindle has more features than Sony, moreover, 2 of the features I wish I had on my Sony as well (dictionary and search). On the other hand my PC at home have search and dictionary and the Internet access features as well. However, it is far from being an ideal dedicated ebook reader. I am not ready to pay the "price" Kindle users have to pay to have the additional features. Such as a permanent keyboard and shorter battery life.
As I said - IMHO - Kindle is a failure as ebook reader, it is just a nice gadget. There is no point to argue with me, because as I said it is my opinion only. There are people who think that Kindle is a better ebook reader than Sony and there are people like me who think Sony is much better (I also believe that CyBook Gen3 is a better ebook reader than Kindle for the same reasons).

P.S. I just cannot bring myself to think about Kindle as ebook reader when I see the keyboard; one of the reasons I bought a dedicated ebook reader instead of reading from a small laptop.

JohnClif · 01-21-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

In my previous post I didn't say: Kindle is ugly.
I said it is a failure as a dedicated ebook reader.

The only reason I can ascertain for your referring to the Kindle as a failure is because it has a dedicated keyboard??!!

I personally think the Kindle is the best of the Gen III ereaders out there (Gen I being PDAs, Gen II being ereaders with LCD screens). Amazon did a great job at OOTB thinking, asking themselves "what would be ideal in a book?" and then making the Kindle have many of those features.

What would make the Kindle better? How about

access to libraries (many libraries with ebook inventory use the DRM MOBI format)?
the ability to 'rent' a book for a week or two, or for one front-to-back read?
a killer PDF conversion service that would actually do a great job reformatting PDFs to display well on the Kindle... so I could do things like read my CACM or IEEE articles easily on the device?
a color screen?
a two-page layout via a device that unfolded?
the ability to read AZW on my PC?
better organization of the books on the device, like by user-defined folders?

What makes the Kindle the greatest of the Gen III devices is the EVDO modem that is built-in. Being able to buy any one of 90,000+ books while at the airport, in a strange hotel room, etc., is killer. Being able to browse the web on a much better screen than on my smartphone is killer. Asking stupid (and not-so-stupid) questions on a device I happen to have in a meeting, and getting an answer back quickly, is killer. Not to count all of the free books, including some of the classics that I've always wanted to read but never wanted to buy, available from other sources.

I'm happier with my Kindle every day that I own it, and I've read over 100 books on it since buying the darn thing in early December. It is the most-used electronic device I have. I get my free news via RSS feeds and Mobipocket Reader every morning. Yes, it has a few rough edges, but I'd buy another if it got broken, lost, or stolen.

astra · 01-22-2008, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnClif

The only reason I can ascertain for your referring to the Kindle as a failure is because it has a dedicated keyboard??!!

And considerably shorter battery life. Even with modem switched off, it is only 1 week vs. 3 weeks of Sony.
It doesn't feel like a book in your hands, it feels just like another new gadget, albeit with superior screen for reading.
All other features it has (such as EDVO, buying books on the fly, wiki, internet) do not belong to ebook reader (at least if you have to pay for it by having keyboard and shorter battery life)- imho.

Although, you are right. It is only me who perceive Kindle this way. There are more than enough people who like it.

P.S. I repeat myself

, so I quit this discussion

HarryT · 01-22-2008, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnClif

What makes the Kindle the greatest of the Gen III devices is the EVDO modem that is built-in. Being able to buy any one of 90,000+ books while at the airport, in a strange hotel room, etc., is killer.

You are perhaps forgetting that this is only available if you travel locally within your own country. For people who travel internationally it's worthless - the Sprint service that the Kindle uses is only available within the United States. It's unavailable to 95% of the people in the world.

At the risk of repeating myself, why on Earth they made the Kindle use the US-specific EVDO service rather than the world-wide EDGE system (ie GSM-based) is a mystery that I just can't fathom. It seems like a very short-sighted design decision.

vdospec · 01-22-2008, 09:58 AM

Ok, I want a kindle, who has one for sale? that does not want thier's?

Alisa · 01-22-2008, 01:16 PM

One week is plenty for me. If I will be more than a week away from electricity then maybe I'll consider a Cybook for the trip (or a solar charger). Three weeks with no recharging is certainly better than one but the difference doesn't really increase value for me or make it more book-like. Of course I actually view the ways in which it goes beyond the book to be added value. I think that's just a point on which we will probably always differ.

Harry,

Many consumer products are released in stages to different markets, especially things like mobile devices. Just because it's been released first with EVDO in the US doesn't mean it can never, ever have any other sort of connection. The iPhone almost ended up EVDO, too, but talks with Verizon fell apart and AT&T picked it up. If they hadn't, Apple could've just replaced the chipset and radio for a European version. It would've been simpler as far as hardware goes if Amazon had partnered with AT&T or T-Mobile to begin with, but their data coverage isn't as good in many places here. I don't know if it boiled down to that or just to who gave them the best deal for the Whispernet, but either way it doesn't close down future hardware releases. It appears Amazon's model for this device is access over the mobile wireless network rather than using wifi. I'm guessing this is partially for control and partially to appeal to the road warriors and commuters out there. The downside is this entails partnerships with service providers. Just because Amazon doesn't have one with any non-US carriers yet doesn't mean they won't in the future. Having GSM hardware wouldn't automatically extend Whispernet globally. That would still take some business deals.

While it is unavailable to 95% of the planet at the moment, they weren't launching to 95% of the planet and EVDO, being an old, well-established technology, is available most of the time to most folks in the US. Besides, I'm not sure what the electronic rights situation is with Amazon's American ebooks. I would imagine there are restrictions. Notice Sony won't sell content to you, either, if you live outside the US. I hope that Amazon eventually expands to offer electronic content all over the world but I'm glad they didn't wait until they could to release the Kindle here. As often as I leave the country, maybe once or twice a year, I'll be ok downloading via computer and loading via USB. Being out of the country reduces the functionality in that regard to that of every other reader on the market. Would it be great if it also had wifi or was compatible with networks all over the world? Heck yeah! But for what's available to me right now, this provides some great extra convenience while I'm in the country which is the vast majority of the time.

snookums · 01-22-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

One week is plenty for me. If I will be more than a week away from electricity then maybe I'll consider a Cybook for the trip (or a solar charger).

Get a Solio.

JohnClif · 01-22-2008, 03:46 PM

(IMO) Amazon didn't choose EDGE because the data rate would make downloading a book painful, and Amazon envisioned that downloading data via the modem would be something that happens alot... especially if customers are buying lots of books! They also didn't go with WiFi because it is a local (not area-wide) service. The cellular network is everywhere.

(IMO) Amazon chose EVDO because they got a great deal with the carrier. I think that GSM and 3G are the way of the future, but 3G really isn't in America yet. Again, IMO, the reason Amazon was happy with EVDO is because they wanted to try the Kindle in the US, where the standard of living is high enough to make a $400 ereader affordable to a huge audience.

And, IMO, Amazon will offer future versions of the Kindle with either interchangeable radio modems (3G, EVDO, etc.) or built with different modems... taking 3rd party data comm modules, e.g., WiFi, EVDO, 3G, perhaps using a CF or SDIO slot and with driver support either built-in or downloadable via USB (initial setup would need to be at a 'net-connected computer).

Also, I don't see battery life on the Kindle as a big deal. It will last several days of several hours' reading without a charge, or a day or so of online browsing. Bring the charger with you. Certainly a charger is a lot more portable than a laptop (to download content).

zartemis · 01-22-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

One week is plenty for me. If I will be more than a week away from electricity then maybe I'll consider a Cybook for the trip (or a solar charger).

While I do wish the battery life was longer (and I don't get a week with wifi off, maybe 4-5 days), it's longer than many of my other gadgets.

I've already bought an extra battery and keep it on me charged (another wish is that there was an external battery charger for the spare battery). I've run out of juice twice myself and once my friend (who also has a Kindle) has. The charged spare has come in handy each time. After I've had to swap, I make sure to recharge both batteries that night.

I've also picked up an iGo charger so I can charge in the car if need be (the Kindle takes the A00 tip). I haven't had to use that yet.

Alisa · 01-22-2008, 08:09 PM

I'm lucky I've never run out of charge. I just plug it in before I go to sleep if I see that it's below 50%. That seems to be less than 1-2x/week for me unless I've spent a lot of time online. Usually I only turn the wireless on when I know I have content waiting, maybe a few quick searches. I don't have any subscriptions.

01-19-2008, 08:38 PM	#212
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	I understand you think it's ugly but I think it's a bit of an overstatement to call it a "failure" as a device. It's amazingly easy to use. The feel in the hand and the smooth action of the buttons are way nicer to me than the Sony. I know Sony is a sleeker gadget. It's way prettier. I wouldn't mind if the Kindle were thinner and a different color, but the interface and feature set are WAY better. Holding it and flipping through pages is much more natural feeling than the Sony. Ultimately, though, it came down to features for me. If Sony had what I consider basic features such as search and dictionary lookup, I'd have one. They didn't manage to come up with those things in over a year. Whispernet is cool and all but people act like it's just a frill and the only differentiating factor. It's not. The first time I saw the 500 I wanted it. I thought the interface was a bit cumbersome but I loved the e-ink screen. When I found out you couldn't search text let alone use a dictionary, I really was appalled. I figured they must eventually add such a basic feature. How could they not? You have text. You have some basic computing power. Duh. Make the thing do more than just let you look at the text. Take a book to the next level. Nope. To me, both Sony's were failures as devices because they don't deliver simple, basic features. Pretty isn't enough for me when the insides show a complete lack of imagination. I was close to buying the Cybook because at least it had a dictionary. The Kindle is the first device I've found that has the basic feature set I want. I hope it lights a fire under Sony's butt to improve their device because I want to see some competition in this market. I don't want Amazon to be the only game in town. Last edited by Alisa; 01-19-2008 at 08:45 PM. Reason: typo

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01-19-2008, 08:32 PM	#211
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,792 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	I would say getting screwed is when you try to go back to Amazon to download the eBook(s) you have purchased from them only to find they no longer are available for download and the only way to get them back is to go to another shop and purchase them again.

01-19-2008, 09:09 PM	#213
srharris19 Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Sony PRS500/Kindle/Treo 700w	The Sony is nicer looking and feels better in the hands. But aside from the wireless, I think the annotation and searching are really valuable features on the Kindle.

01-19-2008, 09:17 PM	#215
rationalbiker Connoisseur Posts: 75 Karma: 361 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Va. Beach, VA Device: Kindle	I'm a function over form guy myself. That said, I don't share the opinion that the device is ugly. I actually like the appearance of the Kindle.

01-20-2008, 08:30 AM	#216
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	In my previous post I didn't say: Kindle is ugly. I said it is a failure as a dedicated ebook reader. Yes, Kindle has more features than Sony, moreover, 2 of the features I wish I had on my Sony as well (dictionary and search). On the other hand my PC at home have search and dictionary and the Internet access features as well. However, it is far from being an ideal dedicated ebook reader. I am not ready to pay the "price" Kindle users have to pay to have the additional features. Such as a permanent keyboard and shorter battery life. As I said - IMHO - Kindle is a failure as ebook reader, it is just a nice gadget. There is no point to argue with me, because as I said it is my opinion only. There are people who think that Kindle is a better ebook reader than Sony and there are people like me who think Sony is much better (I also believe that CyBook Gen3 is a better ebook reader than Kindle for the same reasons). P.S. I just cannot bring myself to think about Kindle as ebook reader when I see the keyboard; one of the reasons I bought a dedicated ebook reader instead of reading from a small laptop.

01-22-2008, 09:58 AM	#220
vdospec Member Posts: 13 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: PRS500, but soon the PRS-505	Ok, I want a kindle, who has one for sale? that does not want thier's?

01-22-2008, 01:16 PM	#221
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	One week is plenty for me. If I will be more than a week away from electricity then maybe I'll consider a Cybook for the trip (or a solar charger). Three weeks with no recharging is certainly better than one but the difference doesn't really increase value for me or make it more book-like. Of course I actually view the ways in which it goes beyond the book to be added value. I think that's just a point on which we will probably always differ. Harry, Many consumer products are released in stages to different markets, especially things like mobile devices. Just because it's been released first with EVDO in the US doesn't mean it can never, ever have any other sort of connection. The iPhone almost ended up EVDO, too, but talks with Verizon fell apart and AT&T picked it up. If they hadn't, Apple could've just replaced the chipset and radio for a European version. It would've been simpler as far as hardware goes if Amazon had partnered with AT&T or T-Mobile to begin with, but their data coverage isn't as good in many places here. I don't know if it boiled down to that or just to who gave them the best deal for the Whispernet, but either way it doesn't close down future hardware releases. It appears Amazon's model for this device is access over the mobile wireless network rather than using wifi. I'm guessing this is partially for control and partially to appeal to the road warriors and commuters out there. The downside is this entails partnerships with service providers. Just because Amazon doesn't have one with any non-US carriers yet doesn't mean they won't in the future. Having GSM hardware wouldn't automatically extend Whispernet globally. That would still take some business deals. While it is unavailable to 95% of the planet at the moment, they weren't launching to 95% of the planet and EVDO, being an old, well-established technology, is available most of the time to most folks in the US. Besides, I'm not sure what the electronic rights situation is with Amazon's American ebooks. I would imagine there are restrictions. Notice Sony won't sell content to you, either, if you live outside the US. I hope that Amazon eventually expands to offer electronic content all over the world but I'm glad they didn't wait until they could to release the Kindle here. As often as I leave the country, maybe once or twice a year, I'll be ok downloading via computer and loading via USB. Being out of the country reduces the functionality in that regard to that of every other reader on the market. Would it be great if it also had wifi or was compatible with networks all over the world? Heck yeah! But for what's available to me right now, this provides some great extra convenience while I'm in the country which is the vast majority of the time.

01-22-2008, 03:46 PM	#223
JohnClif Enthusiast Posts: 37 Karma: 484 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Amazon Kindle, PC/Mobipocket Reader, Palm T3	(IMO) Amazon didn't choose EDGE because the data rate would make downloading a book painful, and Amazon envisioned that downloading data via the modem would be something that happens alot... especially if customers are buying lots of books! They also didn't go with WiFi because it is a local (not area-wide) service. The cellular network is everywhere. (IMO) Amazon chose EVDO because they got a great deal with the carrier. I think that GSM and 3G are the way of the future, but 3G really isn't in America yet. Again, IMO, the reason Amazon was happy with EVDO is because they wanted to try the Kindle in the US, where the standard of living is high enough to make a $400 ereader affordable to a huge audience. And, IMO, Amazon will offer future versions of the Kindle with either interchangeable radio modems (3G, EVDO, etc.) or built with different modems... taking 3rd party data comm modules, e.g., WiFi, EVDO, 3G, perhaps using a CF or SDIO slot and with driver support either built-in or downloadable via USB (initial setup would need to be at a 'net-connected computer). Also, I don't see battery life on the Kindle as a big deal. It will last several days of several hours' reading without a charge, or a day or so of online browsing. Bring the charger with you. Certainly a charger is a lot more portable than a laptop (to download content).

01-22-2008, 08:09 PM	#225
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	I'm lucky I've never run out of charge. I just plug it in before I go to sleep if I see that it's below 50%. That seems to be less than 1-2x/week for me unless I've spent a lot of time online. Usually I only turn the wireless on when I know I have content waiting, maybe a few quick searches. I don't have any subscriptions.

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