Piracy Experiment

[ProfCrash]

I have seen authors who have hinted that they have come to that very same conclusion.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ikonixx

If I download a book from a torrent site and read it but don't share it, how is that different from going to a book reseller and getting the book there? Neither the author, nor the publisher sees a dime from either. If we say that the person that downloads a book is committing theft then isn't the person buying from a reseller doing the same?

There is a limited supply of second-hand books. Anyone buying a second-hand book is reducing the number available, and indirectly making sales of new copies more likely.

There's an infinite supply of copied ebooks.

That's the difference.

[ikonixx]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

There is a limited supply of second-hand books. Anyone buying a second-hand book is reducing the number available, and indirectly making sales of new copies more likely.

There's an infinite supply of copied ebooks.

That's the difference.

So the fact that buying from a reseller depletes stock is what makes the difference between theft and not? How so?

I thought the fact that the author wasn't getting payed for the use of his/her work was the key to determining theft. If that's true then buying from a reseller is also theft correct?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ikonixx

So the fact that buying from a reseller depletes stock is what makes the difference between theft and not? How so?

I thought the fact that the author wasn't getting payed for the use of his/her work was the key to determining theft. If that's true then buying from a reseller is also theft correct?

Nope. The used paper book has already sold once, which is why it is a used book. The author and publisher got revenue from the sale.

That's not true for an ebook.
______
Dennis

[ficbot]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

But that means if the book is read, the author deserves payment. Period.

No it doesn't. The reader can get the book for free from the library. Or borrow it from their mother. Or sample the first few pages and decide to buy another book instead. If the reader picking up (however metaphorically) the book does not result in a sale for the author, there is a reason that browsing customer was not converted into a paying customer, and it's the author's job to convert them. There are no guarantees at all that someone who writes a book will get any profit at all, unless they do it for hire. It's just not that kind of business, and the author 'deserving' money has nothing to do with it. Some authors make a lot of money. Some authors make less money. From strictly a business standpoint, it is a commission sales job.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I don't prescribe to the "every download equals a lost sale" theory, but if you read it you got something out of it.

As did the writer.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Your consent was required for commissioned work. Authors have no choice if their work is posted on the darknet by others.

But they do have a choice over whether it stays there, and whether Google provides links to it. Anyone can set up an alert to tell them as soon as something is uploaded, and have it removed just as easily.

There are a few places where you can't do that, but those are not mainstream places so the small minority of people who use them don't statistically matter. (not that any of them do, but I think I would have trouble convincing you of that).

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ficbot

There are no guarantees at all that someone who writes a book will get any profit at all, unless they do it for hire. It's just not that kind of business, and the author 'deserving' money has nothing to do with it. Some authors make a lot of money. Some authors make less money. From strictly a business standpoint, it is a commission sales job.

Yes and no.

For an author published by a standard trade house, it's more like "draw against commission". The publisher will acquire the rights to publish the book for a fee which is an advance against royalties. The publisher is betting that the book will "earn out" - sell enough copies to cover direct costs and the advance, and generate additional revenue from which the author will be paid further royalties.

Most books do not earn out, and the advance is all the author sees.

A "work-for-hire" contract works the same way: the author will get a fee for writing the book, and additional royalties if the book sells well. The difference is that someone else owns the rights to the content. Media tie-in novels, like the Star Trek books, are examples of work-for-hire. Paramount owns the characters and setting, and licenses the right to produce books set in it using those characters. (Though there was yelling a screaming a while back when the publisher doing Star Wars tie-ins announced plans for moving to a straight fee and no royalties deal for SW books.)

Authors self publishing, or working on a "royalties only" compensation basis, are can be viewed as straight commission work. There is no up front payment.
______
Dennis

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

There is a limited supply of second-hand books. Anyone buying a second-hand book is reducing the number available, and indirectly making sales of new copies more likely.

There's an infinite supply of copied ebooks.

That's the difference.

There isn't really an infinite supply of copied e-books, as only a fairly limited # of people know how to download/convert/etc. It could easily be comparable to the # of used books in bookstores/craigslist wherever, if not much less.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

There is a limited supply of second-hand books. Anyone buying a second-hand book is reducing the number available, and indirectly making sales of new copies more likely.

There's an infinite supply of copied ebooks.

That's the difference.

Buying a second hand paperbook would also be putting money into the economy, which is a good thing to do at the moment. Especially if you can buy it locally.

But then again, downloading it for free would give the downloader more money to spend on other things, which would also be good for the economy.

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Nope. The used paper book has already sold once, which is why it is a used book. The author and publisher got revenue from the sale.

That's not true for an ebook.
______
Dennis

Except that someone has to buy the ebook to strip and convert. So your logic applies to them as well.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

There isn't really an infinite supply of copied e-books, as only a fairly limited # of people know how to download/convert/etc. It could easily be comparable to the # of used books in bookstores/craigslist wherever, if not much less.

You can make a potentially infinite number of copies of a single ebook, which is the point.
______
Dennis

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Nope. The used paper book has already sold once, which is why it is a used book. The author and publisher got revenue from the sale.

That's not true for an ebook.
______
Dennis

Any ebook available as an unauthorised download will have been bought by someone originally, either in paper form or as a retail ebook. The difference would be more one of scale. A used paperbook could only be owned by one person at a time. A used ebook could be owned by millions of people.

[puddych]

I have been following this topic with interest and wiould like to point out a thing or two...

If I buy with my money something, be it food a tele or a book...it is mine lock stock and barral...if I buy a e-book it belongs to me physicly on my computer or e-reader ect..I decide what to do with it because I paid for it, I will happily take out any copywrite crap protection and share it with my family and any freinds I think would like the book. I also download of the darkside books I have allready pysicly bought some 30 -40 years ago..I paid for them then the auther- publisher-printer ect all got their there share...and Iwill not pay again for somthing I allready paid for....
I consider it on par with buying- paying for a computer software program ie like windows 7 I start to install it and come to the terms -conditions page

..I then have TO CLICK I ACCEPT all terms conditions ect before it will install the program....hey I am not ready to accept a lot of their crap terms ect...but if I dont click the button no instalation .,.I have on my hands an expensive program which wont install unless I click the button..I consider this blackmail...I just refuse this..will I get an pirated vertion of the net and not pay for it...hell yes...I would happily pay for a legal vertion with a second button which will let me download it without giving in to their blackmail...all this to say most people arnot born pirates but certain things drive them that way...

I just get so fed up with money grabing which goes far over decent bounderies...does this make me a bad person..I do not think so..I just addapt to a crazy world

urs

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

You can make a potentially infinite number of copies of a single ebook, which is the point.
______
Dennis

Providing you had the time, you could also potentially lend out one dtbook an infinite number of time.