geographic restrictions at Fictionwise

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kaan

Falsifying a document in a trade agreement is fraud.
Doing it to circumvent trade restrictions might be worse.
In Denmark it would be a criminal offence. I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

Again we are in a situation, where absurd restrictions are making criminals of normal paying customers.

Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by tompe

Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.

Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Ea

Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

Lying about your location was illegal also according to a comment here. That was the context I made my comment in.

But yes personally I think it is more problematic lying than breaking an immoral law. But other will of course have other opinions about that.

[kaan]

Originally Posted by tompe

Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.

There hasn't been any commercials on TV that tells you its wrong to falsify legal documents

As for the moral part ... Well, I think that each person should decide for him/herself where the fine line goes. I'm not one to pass judgement on others (although I can be a bit provocative towards people who has glaring inconsistencies in their moral code).

[Ea]

Originally Posted by tompe

Lying about your location was illegal also according to a comment here. That was the context I made my comment in.

I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

[kaan]

Originally Posted by Ea

Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

I'm curious, where do you stand on this issue?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Ea

I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

Then I misunderstood. Well illegal+lying can eaily be worse than illegal which was my point.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by kaan

I'm curious, where do you stand on this issue?

Heh, I bought a geographically restricted book from FW just this afternoon.

[kaan]

Originally Posted by Ea

Heh, I bought a geographically restricted book from FW just this afternoon.

Very shortly; copyright law is a good thing, though the current life+70 is far, far too much, it only favours those extremely few authors whose fame last more than 5-20 years, and it restrict fair use far too severely.
If I see a book for sale at FW, I find it extremely frustrating that I cannot buy it just because I don't live in the USA, but since it's so easy to circumvent, I might buy it anyway. It's 'wrong' but not 'wrong' enough not to do. You are Danish, you know how we tend to wait for green light at traffic crossings, even if there is no cars? This feels less bad In this case, I am paying - not paying is morally worse. I also strip the DRM, but from what I can read at the site of the ministry of culture (http://www.infokiosk.dk/sw9430.asp), this might be within the intent of the law, if not the letter.

I doubt that you will be put in front of a judge for this crime

I does feel much more legal when you have paid for the privilege of reading a book. None the less it is just as much a breach of copyright law to remove DRM as if you found it in the deep cellars of the internet.

https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms...aspx?id=117519
kapitel 6 a (§§ 75 b-75 e)

There is a fair use exception, but it is very specific, and probably not relevant if your reader is compatible with the DRM in question.

Danish copyright law is an almost verbatim copy of the US DMCA and I think it should be rebuild from the ground up. It makes me a criminal even though I don't feel like one.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Ea

You are Danish, you know how we tend to wait for green light at traffic crossings, even if there is no cars?

In Sweden they changed the laws so there is no punishment for walking against red so nobody waits nowadays. I am going to Copenhagen for a science fiction convention next weekend (http://www.fantasticon.dk/fantasticon2009/) so I might have to change my behavior.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by kaan

)
There is a fair use exception, but it is very specific, and probably not relevant if your reader is compatible with the DRM in question.

Danish copyright law is an almost verbatim copy of the US DMCA and I think it should be rebuild from the ground up. It makes me a criminal even though I don't feel like one.

AFAIK the exception is if you don't have hardware to play/wiew your file. Since I have a sony Reader, I couldn't use any of the file formats offered on that, but I did have the opportunity to use it on my computer. Silly, isn't it? The current copyright is really made with media files (music and video) in mind, not books. I mean, it is legal to make a make a photocopy (analogue copy) of a book I borrow, but only legal to make a digital copy of the book if I own it. The first instance is much easier and will probably give me the copy with the least errors.

I'll look into the site you linked to, tomorrow. Thanks for the info

[Ea]

Originally Posted by tompe

In Sweden they changed the laws so there is no punishment for walking against red so nobody waits nowadays. I am going to Copenhagen for a science fiction convention next weekend (http://www.fantasticon.dk/fantasticon2009/) so I might have to change my behavior.

Oh, you will have to - or you will get STARED at!! If there's anyone around at the time, that is

Have a great con!

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Ea

I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

Yea, but.

Unauthorised copying is a civil offence.
Falsfying details is often a criminal offence, not a civil one.

Neither are right, but...

Personally I hold with "if you want my business, you have to be willing to deal with me". It is not coincidence that the vast majority of my ebooks are from Baen.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Yea, but.

Unauthorised copying is a civil offence.
Falsfying details is often a criminal offence, not a civil one.

Neither are right, but...

Personally I hold with "if you want my business, you have to be willing to deal with me". It is not coincidence that the vast majority of my ebooks are from Baen.

*shrug*
And that works well for you because you mostly read books from the genres Baen offers. If you'd had different interests, you would have to rationalize your (different) choices differently.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

*shrug*
And that works well for you because you mostly read books from the genres Baen offers. If you'd had different interests, you would have to rationalize your (different) choices differently.

Actually I read a fairly wide range of books.

But I won't buy DRM'ed books, I'll buy either non-DRM'ed ebooks, or I'll wait for the paperback (and fairly frequently the paperback second hand).