Reasons I'm not getting a Kindle but the Sony 505 instead.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rationalbiker

For the sake of those of us who are new to ebooks, would you share with us your opinion on how Amazon "screwed" people before? Thanks in advance.

It's not opinion, it's fact. People who purchased eBooks from Amazon only had a 1 year window to be able to redownload their purchased eBooks. It was mainly people who purchased in PDF format who needed to redownload as they upgraded their computers or OS and the PDF they had no longer worked. They found out that that their eBooks were no longer available for download. So if you needed to get your books again, you were unable to. Amazon also stopped selling eBooks. This was all before they purchased Mobipocket.

[astra]

I saw an interesting advert today

[HarryT]

Don't get excited about it. It's just the standard "amazon.com" front page, with the automatic "redirect" you get offered if you visit amazon.com from the UK. Certainly doesn't mean that the Kindle is about to be sold in the UK, I'm afraid .

[astra]

I had a different "interesting" point on my mind when posting this

[JSWolf]

I just had a go at Amazon.co.uk and did a search on Kindle and nothing came up about the Kindle or eBooks.

[astra]

I will wait for a third try.
If no one notice, then my brains are out of order today.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

I will wait for a third try.
If no one notice, then my brains are out of order today.

You'll just have to stop bashing your head on your computer desk.

[astra]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You'll just have to stop bashing your head on your computer desk.

Ha!
I just received a brand new MS keyboard. How else can I test its functionality?

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's not opinion, it's fact.

What I mean is, "getting screwed" is frequently in the mind of the beholder. For me to judge whether or not I thought they "screwed" anyone, I would want to know the facts rather than rely on someone else's judgement. For instance, one thing I would evaluate would be; whether anyone got "screwed" or not depends upon whether or not Amazon had some agreement with them, expressed or implied, that Amazon later did not honor.

It is frequently the case with many software providers that they do not promise support or upward compatibility with new operating systems, new program versions, etc. etc. I see that as a matter of doing "digital business", not anything I would specifically hold against Amazon. How long after purchase do you think they should have provided compatible content with newer software or systems?

What did Amazon promise (what real agreement existed) the ebook purchasers? Did they fail to follow through on that promise? Were there stipulations in their content/end user agreement that stated they could end support at any time?

Was there previous ebook venture unprofitable? Is it possible they learned something from their past venture that may either improve their product and/or their service this time around?

I would speculate that if this current venture IS profitable, there would be no particular reason to believe that they will just up and stop providing content. I would reasonably expect that if the venture was not profitable, support might end at some point unforeseeable to me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

I had a different "interesting" point on my mind when posting this

Do you mean "why is there a picture of a PRS-500 on it"? That's not immediately obvious, I must admit .

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you mean "why is there a picture of a PRS-500 on it"? That's not immediately obvious, I must admit .

YES!


On the same page there is andvert for Kindle and just one inch below there is an advert of PRS-505 and brown cover for prs-500

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by rationalbiker

Thanks for the info. Did they guarentee or claim (or disclaim) how long they would offer support for these books? Do you know if this venture resulted in a profit loss for them? (aside from perhaps the tertiary effect of loss of business due to loss of customer faith) How long should they have supported this venture assuming they were losing money on it?

Do you think they will drop support for the current scheme IF it remains profitable for them?

This issue is the support for products sold. I am not sure if they guaranteed support for the eBooks but there is an implied support from a consumer. They did say that they had copies available for re-download but I can't remember if they specifically said how long they would keep them. It is standard industry practice to keep these kinds of things forever (well as long as the company exists anyway).

This issue is not profitability, it is a customer support issue. Customer support should not suffer even if a current product is dropped as long as the company exists. At least that is the reasoning some use to question the practice of Amazon. There are those who feel DRM only means that you rent the books for a while and this is the main reason that they feel that way. It is DRM that prevents you from being able to read a book as long as you want if the company decides to drop support. In a recent case one company that sold Mobi eBooks with DRM went out of business and at this point MobiPocket themselves are trying to pick up the pieces for that companies product. It is unknown whether they will be successful but it would go a long way toward stability of DRM if they can.

DRM is a sore point with many members of this forum and the behavior of those that enforce DRM is certainly being scrutinized for their current and past performance.

I have no idea how long Amazon will support DRM on eBooks they are currently selling. We only have history to go on. I hope Amazon has learned their lesson but only time will tell.

Dale

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

This issue is the support for products sold. I am not sure if they guaranteed support for the eBooks but there is an implied support from a consumer.

Im not sure how the consumer can imply support. Only the seller could imply support, though consumers might assume a certain level of support. A customer's assumption of support would not be anything a company would be bound by.

It is standard industry practice to keep these kinds of things forever (well as long as the company exists anyway).

By industry, do you mean ebook sellers? Would the business practices of other businesses bind Amazon to that same practice?

Customer support should not suffer even if a current product is dropped as long as the company exists. At least that is the reasoning some use to question the practice of Amazon.

I'm not sure this is a reasonable expectation. A multitude of companies, both of digital products and non-digital products, do not offer support for the products for the life of the company.

There are those who feel DRM only means that you rent the books for a while and this is the main reason that they feel that way.

Then I would support their decision not to purchase DRM related products. If the disagree with DRM, I would assume they would not purchase DRM content. That is well within their rights.

DRM is a sore point with many members of this forum...

In my case, I don't have a problem with DRM. While there are some folks how handle digital files ethically and responsibly, there are many, many people who do not. From the author to the distributor, I support their right to control the distribution of their product and thus their livelihood. In the same sense that I support a person's right NOT to purchase DRM content, I support the other sides right to protect such content from unscrupulous people.

I have no idea how long Amazon will support DRM on eBooks they are currently selling.

Nor do I. No one can know the future. History can help, but it is not always a reliable indicator.

For my own sake and piece of mind, I never lose sight of the fact that businesses exist to make profit. I rarely have any expectation that they will continue a product line or lengthy support period when it will result in a monetary loss to them. Any expectation of support I would have from them would be based on either practice or explicit statement as I know how wrong assumptions can be.

In my particular case, I give them kudos for Kindle support so far. When I purchased a Kindle from someone other than Amazon, I came to find out that they explicitly state they do not support products purchased from other sellers. They did not have to replace my Kindle when if froze and became and expensive paperweight, but it appears that they are going to replace it for me and give me a promo credit for my inconvenience. If they renig on that, I'll be the first to come back and let you know.

But my guess is the Kindle is going to be something that previous ereaders have not been, something that catches on with a much larger user base, perhaps even mainstream. I would also guess that this will be a profitable venture for them and that we will see future iterations of the Kindle.

[snookums]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's also easy to think of the past and think... YES AMAZON ABANDONED EBOOKS!

Amazon abandoned other formats that they were selling for other people. It's not naive to assume that they found the hassle of dealing with eBabel to be more annoying than it's worth. I imagine they had to spend an inordinate amount of time explaining how to read the different formats to people who didn't understand eBooks. They probably decided that they wanted to do eBooks their way. The way they have set up the Kindle with conversion going through them seems to confirm this. It's reasonable, now that they have branded their own format and have gone so far as to create a dedicated reader for it along with a complete store, to believe that they aren't going to just drop it just like that. Their previous attempts at integrating eBooks was obviously experimental and software only. Putting out a hardware reader is a much firmer commitment.

I doubt I've swayed you, but I'm going to take my chances. The convenience and selection are worth it to me. If Amazon ditches their store within 5 years, I'll come back here and let you say "I told you so."

[astra]

I doubt Amazon will abandon ebooks now.
I also believe that Kindle is a very good thing to happen in our(ebook users) life. It attracted a bigger audience and more attention to ebooks.
Although the gadget itself is a failure as a dedicated ebook device, it has its niche, there are people who like it, so it has a number of fans. Which is also a good thing. The more of ebooks fans the better.