So I bought a blacklisted Kindle off Craigslist

[Rebo]

Very interesting thread. As reflected in here, moral standard and the degree of righteous is not absolute but rather depends on circumstances and the collective view point of a given community. I'll too throw in my 2 cents. Let us look at the following scenarios:

1) Found a penny on the street
2) Found $25000 on the street
3) Bought a $120 stolen/lost Kindle on Craigslist
4) Bought a $25000 stolen/lost ruby pendant in Jewelry Mart
5) Override DRM protection from purchased ebooks for reading in another ereader
6) Override patent protection of a competitors design to mass produce in the market
7) Default the bank on a mortgage that the homeowner can afford to pay

Most of the people agree 1) is of little or no consequence since the monetary value is so small. The forum here has a huge debate on 3) since the monetary value starts to infringe on the comfort zone. 2) and 4) should be clean cut offenses as there is a clear victim who suffer significant losses and want the items back.

Similarly, we debate quite a bit on this forum on 5) stripping DRM for personal use and there is no clear winner since it depends on personal belief and the consequence of such action seems minimal. 7) defaulting the bank on mortgage is a strange phenomenon here in the United States. People think it is no big deal to default the bank since they are big pocket. We all know the consequences as the whole country is paying deeply for these foreclosures.

Every action carries some consequences and the real impact to the society is the repetitive and collective execution of all these actions by the masses. As someone has mentioned it, the law helps reinforce society's moral standards and protects the common belief of said society. Without the law, depending on personal belief, either we get too stringent or people will run wild if they think they can get away with it.

Go back to the original post. There is nothing wrong for the OP to keep the kindle and there is no need to throw insult at him. On the other hand, the words from the self-righteous is good "words for thought" for our community since it helps to keep our collective moral standard at check.

[REVENGE]

Hey guys, I want to share my similar, yet somewhat different experience.

I purchased a Kindle 3 3G+WiFi sealed in box on craigslist for $150. After I discovered that the device was stolen when I attempted to register, I decided to first try and file a police report. The responding officer told me that in order for a crime report to filed, the serial number of the stolen Kindle must also be listed in their national police database of lost / stolen merchandise. So even though Amazon lists the Kindle as lost/stolen, the police could not file a crime report for me because it was not in their database.

The police officer and I then proceeded to contact Amazon's customer support together to try and obtain more information, but we were told that without a warrant or subpoena, they are not allowed to release any information regarding who reported the device as stolen. Furthermore, their representative told me and the officer that the blacklisting was most likely a mistake, took down the Kindle's serial and radio serial number, and told both of us I was probably going to get unbanned within 24 hours. Of course, that never happened and only resulted in the investigation being further delayed.

So here is a Catch-22 situation: The information that I need to file a crime report is off limits to all parties until a crime report has been filed and a warrant or subpoena issued. I asked the officer to contact Amazon's fraud and police inquiry department directly, but he obtained no additional information from them. I asked 6 different customer service representatives if they could notify the party that the Kindle was stolen from, but they refused. I also offered to return the Kindle to Amazon, but they declined saying that they have no responsibility to accept the Kindle.

I was burned, I was stupid, I ignored the warning signs of a very shady deal. The people who sold me the Kindle are the real criminals here, but I'm rather miffed that Amazon made basically no effort to aide either a police investigation or an effort to return lost/stolen property to its rightful owner. Sure, one stolen Kindle isn't really going to hurt their bottom-line, but I'm afraid that this particular fraud occurs far more often than they're willing to acknowledge.

[macminer]

Since there's another thread on MR, with a seller who had 60 such "stolen Kindles", maybe the whole situation isn't just about items that were stolen off someone's doorstep, but rather slipped out of the official Amazon distribution channel?

There are quite a few possibilities, apart from actual theft:
- items that were lost in transport
- items that were meant only as test/sample items
- items that didn't pass quality control
- items that weren't meant to be distributed in the USA
etc.

I can imagine that in such scenarios Amazon would blacklist the items, but at the same time won't report them to the police. I am not sure what legal consequences this could have, but perhaps this would be situated in the "gray market" realm rather than "theft".

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by REVENGE

Hey guys, I want to share my similar, yet somewhat different experience.

I purchased a Kindle sealed in box on craigslist for $150. After I discovered that the device was stolen when I attempted to register, I decided to first try and file a police report. The responding officer told me that in order for a crime report to filed, the serial number of the stolen Kindle must also be listed in their national police database of lost / stolen merchandise. So even though Amazon lists the Kindle as lost/stolen, the police could not file a crime report for me because it was not in their database.

The police officer and I then proceeded to contact Amazon's customer support together to try and obtain more information, but we were told that without a warrant or subpoena, they are not allowed to release any information regarding who reported the device as stolen. Furthermore, their representative told me and the officer that the blacklisting was most likely a mistake, took down the Kindle's serial and radio serial number, and told both of us I was probably going to get unbanned within 24 hours. Of course, that never happened and only resulted in the investigation being further delayed.

So here is a Catch-22 situation: The information that I need to file a crime report is off limits to all parties until a crime report has been filed and a warrant or subpoena issued. I asked the officer to contact Amazon's fraud and police inquiry department directly, but he obtained no additional information from them. I asked 6 different customer service representatives if they could notify the party that the Kindle was stolen from, but they refused. I also offered to return the Kindle to Amazon, but they declined saying that they have no responsibility to accept the Kindle.

I was burned, I was stupid, I ignored the warning signs of a very shady deal. The people who sold me the Kindle are the real criminals here, but I'm rather miffed that Amazon made basically no effort to aide either a police investigation or an effort to return lost/stolen property to its rightful owner. Sure, one stolen Kindle isn't really going to hurt their bottom-line, but I'm afraid that this particular fraud occurs far more often than they're willing to acknowledge.

you don't say which version it is or when you did it, so I have to ask why you would spend $150 on a $139 device?

[ProfCrash]

It could be the K3 WiFi/3G or a K2 before the K3's were released

[REVENGE]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

you don't say which version it is or when you did it, so I have to ask why you would spend $150 on a $139 device?

Sorry, it slipped my mind when I was posting, but it was a Kindle 3 3G+WiFi.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by REVENGE

Sorry, it slipped my mind when I was posting, but it was a Kindle 3 3G+WiFi.

so you saved a whopping $39 and got yourself into the same jam as the OP? what can one say?

[kalex]

Don't think of it as a whopping $39 but think of it as saving almost 30% of new price. Now if an item costs $1000 would u be willing to save a "whopping" 30% of the sales price? I would bet that the answer would be yes. And then you would be posting everywhere that you saved $300 So saving 30% of retail price is pretty good deal and thats what you pretty much end up saving on CL.
Before math professors jump in - NYC 9% tax and amazon charges tax so almost 30% savings

As "revenge" pointed out Amazon is pretty useless and uncooperative so there is not much anyone can do about this situation.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kalex

Don't think of it as a whopping $39 but think of it as saving almost 30% of new price. Now if an item costs $1000 would u be willing to save a "whopping" 30% of the sales price? I would bet that the answer would be yes. And then you would be posting everywhere that you saved $300 So saving 30% of retail price is pretty good deal and thats what you pretty much end up saving on CL.
Before math professors jump in - NYC 9% tax and amazon charges tax so almost 30% savings

As "revenge" pointed out Amazon is pretty useless and uncooperative so there is not much anyone can do about this situation.

Amazon is very useful and cooperative about issues under their control. if I went into Staples and got a Kindle for 30% off I would be very happy indeed. if you're going to play around on Craig's list, buyer beware. suck it up, lace up your boots if you were burned. relatively cheap lesson if it needed to be taught

[curstpriest]

Keep it, USB sideload books/use wifi

Have you called amazon customer service and explained the situation?
They may reactivate it for you if you establish and account with them and buy books, as they will re cooperate some of their losses (since book prices are the majority of their profits and whisper net coverages). They don't make that much off of sales of hardware.

What most likely happened is someone stole a batch of them and they just blacklisted all of those serial numbers.

[J. Strnad]

Originally Posted by REVENGE

Hey guys, I want to share my similar, yet somewhat different experience.

I purchased a Kindle 3 3G+WiFi sealed in box on craigslist for $150. After I discovered that the device was stolen when I attempted to register, I decided to first try and file a police report. The responding officer told me that in order for a crime report to filed, the serial number of the stolen Kindle must also be listed in their national police database of lost / stolen merchandise. So even though Amazon lists the Kindle as lost/stolen, the police could not file a crime report for me because it was not in their database.

The police officer and I then proceeded to contact Amazon's customer support together to try and obtain more information, but we were told that without a warrant or subpoena, they are not allowed to release any information regarding who reported the device as stolen. Furthermore, their representative told me and the officer that the blacklisting was most likely a mistake, took down the Kindle's serial and radio serial number, and told both of us I was probably going to get unbanned within 24 hours. Of course, that never happened and only resulted in the investigation being further delayed.

So here is a Catch-22 situation: The information that I need to file a crime report is off limits to all parties until a crime report has been filed and a warrant or subpoena issued. I asked the officer to contact Amazon's fraud and police inquiry department directly, but he obtained no additional information from them. I asked 6 different customer service representatives if they could notify the party that the Kindle was stolen from, but they refused. I also offered to return the Kindle to Amazon, but they declined saying that they have no responsibility to accept the Kindle.

I was burned, I was stupid, I ignored the warning signs of a very shady deal. The people who sold me the Kindle are the real criminals here, but I'm rather miffed that Amazon made basically no effort to aide either a police investigation or an effort to return lost/stolen property to its rightful owner. Sure, one stolen Kindle isn't really going to hurt their bottom-line, but I'm afraid that this particular fraud occurs far more often than they're willing to acknowledge.

Which is why God created baseball bats and guys named "Cheech."

[curstpriest]

13 pages of this nonsense now? really?
Holy crap?
OP, if Amazon won't work with you, just wait for cracked firmware, and use that.
Furthermore, you can still side load plenty of books via usb and use the device. I have never bought anything from amazon's bookstore and have read plenty of crap on my kindle. I also don't use my 3G for anything and I don't have wifi, so why worry about it?

[pathfinder_12]

This is sooooo funny reading this thread.... Wow, a bunch of real paladins here.. The Guy tried to get a good deal?? I guess that is some crime? I guess NO one here has bought anything on E-bay????????????? Also there is NO real conformation it’s stolen? He called Amazon they didn't say he you thief give us our stuff back??? They didn't say they replaced anyone’s "lost or stolen" merchandise? You people have absolutely NO clue what happened and yet you sit here and judge this guy and assume this and that... hey I know call the FBI or Interpol and see if there is a missing kindle case open?????? So before some of you people open your mouth about stolen property laws you might want to have all the facts!!! But most of the sights like this are full of pompous asses that think they are some armchair prosecutor etc etc…. And for the gentleman that unfortunately may have run into a less that favorable situation I would restrain from asking these people anything…. My advice would be to further investigate with amazon on how you can rectify the situation and see if the kindle was in anyway already linked to any account or whatever and go from there…. I would not just say let me send it to amazon??? That is so stupid….. Again it’s not stolen property till it’s stolen property….
This story is along the lines of some other idiot on here who rode in on his big white horse to pounce on some lady for changing DRM on here library book so she could read it on her kindle since they don’t support epub…. He started out how he was a big pirate of music and movies until he was in the position to have IP stolen from him???????? Are you kidding me??? What a big fat huge Hypocrite!!! I would NOT ask anyone on this site for anything………..

[Pushka]

Interesting first post. Welcome. And we dont ask anything of people here, but many voluntarily contribute their time to help others out. And we also have discussions. Like this one.

[djulian]

Originally Posted by PharaohsVizier

Legally perhaps, but ethically, perhaps not.

How can you behave ethically and illegally in a case like this? If it's not legally the buyer's property, it's not ethically their property either.

Tell Amazon your situation and tell them you want to do the right thing and that at the same time you don't want to lose your $120. It's better losing the $120 than always feeling like you did the wrong thing when you go to read your Kindle.