Amazon pulls MacMillan?

[Littermate]

Originally Posted by tompe

The waiting list was my point. For a best seller the libraries does not matter. People do not want to wait.

Note, its called a Waiting List. Its full of people waiting.

So there must be plenty who do not mind waiting at all, if there is some advantage to it; such as getting to read a book cheaper or free.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Littermate

Note, its called a Waiting List. Its full of people waiting.

So there must be plenty who do not mind waiting at all, if there is some advantage to it; such as getting to read a book cheaper or free.

Eh? I talked about best sellers. The libraries will only be able to satisfy a small amount of the demand so the library argument is irrelevant for best sellers.

[Pardoz]

Originally Posted by tlrowley

Joe Konrath has a great blog post breaking down the current situation from the point of view of an author (lots of authors are blogging on this, of course).

Very interesting post, thanks for linking it. Really interesting to see some actual numbers.

[kjk]

More authors chime in:
Tobias Buckell
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2010/01...le-via-amazon/

Charles Stross
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...outsiders.html

[guyanonymous]

Originally Posted by Grandma Aubbie

My point is that I have a price limit that I use in buying books. I won't buy it until it's in a reasonable price range for me. When it is a reasonable price I will buy it. It's that simple.

I agree 100%.

I'm still waiting for my /song price to hit $0.50 for music I want or $5/album. Things are close. I've not bought new music in years, and prior to that $10/cd was my limit - but bought ~400 CDs over 3-4 years. Radio, internet broadcasting, etc provide me with most of the music I want now.

I've been without cable for years - and will be until I can buy the shows I want without commercials for a reasonable price (say $0.50-$1.00/episode). If I'm forced to watch advertising and product placements (just more advertising), then my watching the shows for nil, is payment for me watching the ads.

As for books - when they sell a pocket book on the remainder table for $3 instead of $13, and they are still making a profit, I become offended. With increased distribution and exponentially reduced costs/unit, book prices are too high. I understand 100% why people go to the darknet. The fact that it takes 2 minutes to find a book you want instead of the hassles otherwise associated with the process is also a big motivator. The publishing industry needs to accept the change and move forward from there. Setting reasonable for the present, rather than basing them on the past, is the first step; likewise, when my choice is something with DRM, you're selling me less of a product than before because what I can do with it (loaning to friends, reselling) is severely diminished.

[guyanonymous]

Joe Konrath speaks the truth.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by kjk

More authors chime in:
Tobias Buckell
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2010/01...le-via-amazon/

Charles Stross
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...outsiders.html

Read the Tobias Buckell piece. His is the clearest, sanest breakdown of this whole thing that I have seen.

I haven't read the Stross yet.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

As usual you have zero clue about what was written...you chose to assume a comment is negative in order to be consistently argumentative and confrontational all the freaking time.

When you use the word gimmick, relegating that sort of perfectly valid business and marketing tactic to the role of a worthless sideshow, you're declaring yourself firmly in line with the publishers demanding they should get to set up a new price cartel rather than in any way actively looking for other soloutions.

THAT is hostile and negative.

I was, as usual, being sarcastic.


Kali Yuga - Two problems there. One, once people go to the darknets, you're going to lose a proportion of them for good. This is obviously not desirable. Secondly, it's a nice graph, but a lot of Apple's hardware decisions seem to be content-driven. You are, I believe, overlooking the importance to them of device tie-in to the content, even when they're not making nearly as much revenue from the content per-se.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

I agree 100%.

I'm still waiting for my /song price to hit $0.50 for music I want or $5/album. Things are close. I've not bought new music in years, and prior to that $10/cd was my limit - but bought ~400 CDs over 3-4 years. Radio, internet broadcasting, etc provide me with most of the music I want now.

I've been without cable for years - and will be until I can buy the shows I want without commercials for a reasonable price (say $0.50-$1.00/episode). If I'm forced to watch advertising and product placements (just more advertising), then my watching the shows for nil, is payment for me watching the ads.

As for books - when they sell a pocket book on the remainder table for $3 instead of $13, and they are still making a profit, I become offended. With increased distribution and exponentially reduced costs/unit, book prices are too high. I understand 100% why people go to the darknet. The fact that it takes 2 minutes to find a book you want instead of the hassles otherwise associated with the process is also a big motivator. The publishing industry needs to accept the change and move forward from there. Setting reasonable for the present, rather than basing them on the past, is the first step; likewise, when my choice is something with DRM, you're selling me less of a product than before because what I can do with it (loaning to friends, reselling) is severely diminished.

Just so you know authors do not make any money off remainder books. I think actually the publisher sells them for a loss too.

[guyanonymous]

I didn't know that specifically, no.

Considering publishers ask retailers to throw out books rather than return them, I'm not surprised. Seeing dumpsters full of pocketbooks without their covers in the past, behind the malls I worked in, that really disgusted me. The government might as well pay farmers to throw away excess food...oh wait.

What a ludicrous system.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Read the Tobias Buckell piece. His is the clearest, sanest breakdown of this whole thing that I have seen.

Really? Sorry, I have to disagree. He's made a basic error (Actually, several).

"During the 70s the government tried to put artificial prices on gas, resulting in shortages as hoarding occurred."

"That’s why your gas, milk, and other items aren’t pegged to a maximum price ceiling."

But why? Oh right, Scarcity. Which does not apply to ebook sales. The marginal costs are minimal. (Oh, the setup cost is high, but once you have the eCommerce platform, website etc. running? Right.)

Also, if Macmilian want to sell direct via their own store they're perfectly entitled to price how they want to. That's why many companies DO bear the costs involved in selling direct. They're trying to have their cake (controlling pricing) and eat it (not having to handle the webstore, etc.)

Also, he's quite right his online sale volumes are low...but Eric Flint addressed that with the free library talks a long time ago didn't he. It boosted Eric's sales of OLD books quite nicely. Baen have already shown that low pricing and no DRM sells much better than the expensive DRM-ridden books he's pushing. And it sells not only ebooks, but print books. That he didn't see the same jump when he offered a book for free shows that the DRM (and format!) *is* a major issue.

The "we must recoup NOW" school of thought is ignoring the fact that costs STAY marginal. You never have to pulp ebooks, and you can sell them for 20 years with the same minimal marginal costs.


"While some authors have done the same, have you seen publishers treating consumers the same way as the RIAA?"

No, even the RIAA were not insane enough to use geographical restrictions.

tldr version: I reiterate my stance that Cory Doctorow has done the only take I'd call reasonable on this so far.

[guyanonymous]

I much preferred this Joe Konrath blog... http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/01/booty-call.html (a sub-link from the one posted above). He, essentially, summed up most of my beliefs.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Read the Tobias Buckell piece. His is the clearest, sanest breakdown of this whole thing that I have seen.

I haven't read the Stross yet.

It's a good piece--but he is incorrect about the DRM--authors and small publishers have the choice of using DRM or not. (Well, the big publishers all have the DRM turned on, and I am not familiar with that platform.)

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

I much preferred this Joe Konrath blog... http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/01/booty-call.html (a sub-link from the one posted above). He, essentially, summed up most of my beliefs.

Nice. I have to look his books up.

Oh and @Stross: "(book publishing is notoriously, uniquely unprofitable, within the media world)"

You've just shown your ignorance about the economics of games there. (A MUCH higher percentage of books break even than games, for starters...)


"do you really think I'd get better terms out of Amazon than a huge publishing conglomerate?"

Yep. And you only think badly of it because you made the choice to surrender exclusive rights. I know a few authors who didn't, and their laughter is scary to behold.

[BWhite]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Kali Yuga - Two problems there. One, once people go to the darknets, you're going to lose a proportion of them for good. This is obviously not desirable.

You know DawnFalcon in a lot of your posts you sure do have a lot to say in regards to folks rushing to the darknets. Sure, here at MobileRead you probably have 90%+ folks who know how to do that. But someone strolling through a Mall about to buy a Smart Phone or pick up an Apple iPad? Your average electronics consumer?

Not sure exactly the definition of darknets you are using, BUT the word 'dark' is in there for a reason for some of those nets, it means those nets are not illuminated for common web tools.

So yes the darknets are out there and a certain percentage will access them but I am suspecting that most book readers won't, even at higher eBook price points. They just won't buy the book.

Now the consumer base for a Sci-Fi author... I will grant you much higher rates.

But you are in the United Kingdom and I am closer to the Magic Kingdom (several hours to the south) so the general population we each rub shoulders with may be vastly different in terms of their internet skillsets.