Going Rogue

[Spartacus2112]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Let's talk about the public option, since that's what we're really talking about when we're talking about anything approaching government-run health-care.

1) If like the insurance you have, you can keep it. That's why it's called an option.

2) If you would rather have the government plan, you must pay for it. It's not charity, and it's not free; but it's the best way I can see to make the big boys behave, and in my opinion, health-care reform without a strong public option is no reform at all.

Could it hurt the insurance companies ability to make profits? All I can say is that I'm every bit as worried about that as the insurance companies are about people with pre-existing conditions.

Let me first say that I have been avoiding the political debate but I feel I must chime in on this solely because you cannot keep your coverage.
The only way the grandfather clause can remain in place is if nothing changes on your current policy. If it does, you or your employer must purchase into the policy set forth by the government on the year of the implementation of the bill. That from sections 101 & 102 of the house bill.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by Ea

Everyone pays taxes - not only the rich, the poor does as well. Everyone who has an income pays tax.

Edit: You ask where to draw the line... Well, in my country we have done so, and it seem the same in other countries. The line in my country is quite different from yours. I feel the line in my country is more moral and civilised than yours, but I assume you feel the same about the line in your country. It must be due to the way we were brought up.

I'd differ with you as to whether or not everyone pays taxes, but I agree with you somewhat about the place to draw the line being influenced by the way we were brought up (although I still think most people in the U.S. agree with your beliefs).

My own belief is that the line is already too generous here in the U.S. I do believe that the line should be pretty generous for kids. So I have no problem with free education, free meals in school, etc., but for adults I have to agree with DesertGrandma and insist on some personal responsibilty.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Daithi

I'd differ with you as to whether or not everyone pays taxes, but I agree with you somewhat about the place to draw the line being influenced by the way we were brought up (although I still think most people in the U.S. agree with your beliefs).

My own belief is that the line is already too generous here in the U.S. I do believe that the line should be pretty generous for kids. So I have no problem with free education, free meals in school, etc., but for adults I have to agree with DesertGrandma and insist on some personal responsibilty.

As for personal responsibility, I equate participating in my community and paying my taxes with adult responsibility. It is the shieking away from paying taxes that I equate with irresponsibility and undue greed. We are all in this society together. We should do our best, but we are not born equal - not even in western societies. It is civilised that we help each other.

[93terp]

Originally Posted by kennyc

No, but it's not about Levi Johnston either.

Hey, give Levi his props...he's now known as "Ricky Hollywood", according to Caribou Barbie.

[93terp]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

True. Bush is more like a zombie than a ghost, and Cheney is more like Ming the Merciless.

Attila the Hun seems apropos...

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Ea

...It is civilised that we help each other.

There you go, talking that commie talk again!

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by 93terp

Hey, give Levi his props...he's now known as "Ricky Hollywood", according to Caribou Barbie.

Well, some kind of wood...

[Superlucky]

I hate to be a pill, but has anyone actually read the book yet? My morbid curiosity is threatening to get the best of me. I just love a bitchy tell-all. I hope to write one someday.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Superlucky

I hate to be a pill, but has anyone actually read the book yet? My morbid curiosity is threatening to get the best of me. I just love a bitchy tell-all. I hope to write one someday.

What? We were talking about a book?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Superlucky

I hate to be a pill, but has anyone actually read the book yet? My morbid curiosity is threatening to get the best of me. I just love a bitchy tell-all. I hope to write one someday.

Um. Um. Book? Who?

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Let's talk about the public option, since that's what we're really talking about when we're talking about anything approaching government-run health-care.

1) If like the insurance you have, you can keep it. That's why it's called an option.

2) If you would rather have the government plan, you must pay for it. It's not charity, and it's not free; but it's the best way I can see to make the big boys behave, and in my opinion, health-care reform without a strong public option is no reform at all.

Could it hurt the insurance companies ability to make profits? All I can say is that I'm every bit as worried about that as the insurance companies are about people with pre-existing conditions.

I know a little bit about medicare reimbursement rates. I work for a clinical laboratory and the way medicare reimburses for services is insane. If you go to a hospital and they draw your blood and run a CBC (a blood test), medicare will pay the hospital $20 for the test. If you go to your doctor and he orders a CBC and you get the test done by a non-hospital lab then medicare will only pay the lab $9 for the exact same test. We even lose money on some medicare reimbursed tests. Private doctors, x-ray, and other non-hospital enties face the same situation.

If we charged insurance companies the same that medicare reimburses us then we would be out of business in a week. What happens in practice is that the other insurance companies pay more for services than they would if medicare paid a reasonable rate. What should happen is that everyone should pay $12 for a CBC, but instead medicare pays $9 and the insurance companies pay $15. Then medicare cuts their rates and pays $8 and the lab raises price on the insurance company who ends up getting charged $16. Now everyone starts screaming about rising healthcare prices.

My fear is that the government plan is going to be a fraction of an insurance company policy and then the government is going to try reimbursing in a similar manner as medicare, but this time there is a difference. Currently not everyone can get into the medicare program, but everyone will be able to get into the "government plan". And if everyone moves to the government plan it will leave no one left to pay for the governments discounted prices. You think healthcare is a mess now, just wait until the government puts those evil insurance companies out of business.

[Daithi]

Originally Posted by Ea

As for personal responsibility, I equate participating in my community and paying my taxes with adult responsibility. It is the shieking away from paying taxes that I equate with irresponsibility and undue greed. We are all in this society together. We should do our best, but we are not born equal - not even in western societies. It is civilised that we help each other.

I don't think anyone is arguing for not paying taxes.

[Superlucky]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Um. Um. Book? Who?

190 replies, and no one's read the ******* book!

Am I going to have to take one for the team?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Daithi

I don't think anyone is arguing for not paying taxes.

Of course not. Public services are paid for with taxes. Schools, libraries, parks, roads, etc etc.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Superlucky

190 replies, and no one's read the ******* book!

(We are all so busted!)

Originally Posted by Superlucky

Am I going to have to take one for the team?

Better you than me!