Do You Prefer iOS 7 Looks Over Previous iOS Versions?

[Faterson]

Please understand that each person engages in different activities. Each person is, therefore, "productive" in a different way. You say iOS devices aren't productivity tools for you, and that's fine. Please, just don't generalise and assume that they are, therefore, productivity tools for no one. iOS devices definitely are productivity tools for me, and essential ones.

I'm not interested in building presentations, manipulating massive Excel files, or in using software keyboards of the Swype variety. Those may be your interests, but they are not mine.

I've already given you examples of productivity tools on my iDevices: Mailbox, Toodledo, Marvin, GoodReader. Likewise neu.Notes, Nebulous Notes, QuickVoice, on and on and on and on. All these tools work better for me on iDevices than their counterparts do on traditional systems. Therefore, they are essential productivity tools for me. Unfortunately, I can't find the same level of quality of productivity apps on Android for now, and certainly not on Windows 8.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Nope, I'm still getting blue screens of death these days, in Windows 7. (More of them than on Win XP, which was the most stable for me.)

A lot of the time, the blue screen is due to faulty hardware. The last time I got such was due to bad ram. I was running one thing that really stressed things and caused it more then anything else. Have you checked out the hardware to make sure that's not causing these blue screens?

Windows 7 is very stable. Your hardware might not be so stable.

[JSWolf]

I am using Windows 8.1 on a laptop and it's working well. I don't care for some of the pre-installed Metro apps that came with it, but I can always install the Win 7 versions and remove the Win 8 versions.

[Faterson]

Yes, it's a hardware issue (graphics card). The problem cannot be easily solved, though (because Windows 7 starts acting up even more weirdly if I try). The point is, an intelligent OS should be able to handle situations better than with BSOD in 2013. Even so, I'm satisfied with Windows 7. It's a buggy OS, but I've always expected Windows to be buggy by default, so no surprise there.

To get back on topic: iOS 7, due to non-delivered alerts and notifications, started reminding me of Windows bugginess in recent weeks. I hope that this is not the future of iOS...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Faterson

...I assure you that Logitech's Ultrathin iPad Keyboard Cover is at least an equal stroke of genius. Again, you seem to be judging something you may not be familiar with. That Logitech keyboard is designed so that when you put it together with the iPad, it looks like a single device.

You seem to equal "bluetooth" with "crappy" keyboards. Sorry, not justified. Bluetooth keyboards like the one by Logitech work like a charm. Nothing crappy about them (as also shown by their price tag).

My commiseration on using Outlook. I for one no longer use that atrocious software. In fact, right there is one of the main reasons why iPad is for me a more productive device than Surface Pro could be: my primary e-mail software for almost a year now has been Mailbox, and it's only available on iOS.


Not good enough for me (as usual for Apple software). On iOS, I use DocsToGo to manage and edit my Office documents. It cooperates with MS Office on my traditional computers flawlessly; I keep editing (for example) the same Excel files on an everyday basis in both MS Office and DocsToGo, and it works perfectly.

Re. bluetooth keyboards:
The keyboards may be top notch. But so far, I haven't seen a workable solution.
If I use my tablet or notebook on the road, it has to last >12 hours to 18 hours (not using the tablet for the whole time, but having it available for that duration). That's already more than most can bare. But if you add bluetooth...
So you have to turn bluetooth off, else it drains the battery too fast. But turning bluetooth on again every 5 or 10minutes for answering 2 or 3 mails? Hardly productive.

Re. Outlook:
I haven't used Outlook for at least 2 years. I was (more than) fine with iCloud on my beloved MacBook Air. And I manage my schedule and such in the cloud anyway.
But then I started a new job in addition to my other tasks. And for whatever reason, I saw in my clients responses, that my mail signature had been crippled frequently. For whatever reason, I only could make it work in Outlook. Simple task, but working best there. Maybe most corporate clients use Outlook themselves?

Re. desktop in Windows 8:
It obviously is less stylish and only partially a touch optimized system. But if you use it like a desktop system = with mouse/touchpad and keyboard, it's working flawlessly.
I've used "normal" notebooks before, because tablets didn't offer the convenience. If you add keyboard and mouse, it's more bulky than you average laptop. So where's the advantage then? Why take, let's say, iPad + keyboard + mouse with you instead of a more compact/mobile MacBook Air?
I've tried Chromebook Pixel: Great notebook with an equally great touchscreen. But I found it awkward to touch the screen and grasping over the keyboard. Way easier and efficient to use the touchpad instead.
But Surface 8 I can prop up and use as a "standard" notebook. With a single swipe a can detach the cover and use it as a tablet.
And I can install all legacy software. Do you really find more tools in iOS than you find Windows programs? It obviously all depends on the task at hand. But so far, I didn't find a single task that couldn't be done on Windows systems.

But to each his own. That's why I buy all kinds of gadgets from numerous manufacturers.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Faterson

...Unfortunately, I can't find the same level of quality of productivity apps on Android for now, and certainly not on Windows 8.

You mean Metro apps on Windows 8, I guess?
It shouldn't be a problem to get all kinds of solutions for the desktop system.
You've mentioned before, you're not a fan of that.
Maybe it's not perfectly touch optimized. But if you use a keyboard on your iPad anyway, you could do the same on Windows 8 devices. If you use Windows 8 desktop with a mouse and keyboard, where's the problem then?

[Faterson]

Nope, I don't use a keyboard along with iDevices most of the time. The focus is on touch-optimised tablet productivity apps. They are there for me on iOS, not there on Windows 8.

As to Bluetooth and battery life, I wish I knew what you're referring to. I have Bluetooth switched on most of the time, but there is no appreciable reduction of battery life. That's how great iDevices are. The battery inside the Logitech keyboard itself only needs to be charged every 3 or 4 months, so again, no problem.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Nope, I don't use a keyboard along with iDevices most of the time. The focus is on touch-optimised tablet productivity apps. They are there for me on iOS, not there on Windows 8.

As to Bluetooth and battery life, I wish I knew what you're referring to. I have Bluetooth switched on most of the time, but there is no appreciable reduction of battery life. That's how great iDevices are. The battery inside the Logitech keyboard itself only needs to be charged every 3 or 4 months, so again, no problem.

I think, between the two of us it's simply about semantics.
By "productive" I mean, working on it. "Working" as in "professionally". By it's very definition, this kind of productivity means 6, 8 or 10 hours per day. Maybe not permanently using this tool, obviously making a phone call and the likes from time to time. But in total, over a normal working day, let's say 4 hours per day on any such device. Are you really working such an amount of time on iDevices without a keyboard? Kudos to you. I couldn't do this with any touchscreen keyboard.
Of course, we all have different jobs and tasks.
But as an example, yesterday I've followed up to 60 emails. Each email maybe 3 paragraphs on average. Without a keyboard, I would find this a nightmare (not that it was much fun even with a keyboard).
After that, I've prepared a consultancy report. Only 12 pages long, but very specific and took me another 3 hours or so.
I -again, as you say, that's just my personal experience- couldn't imagine something like that with a touchscreen alone.
I'm thinking of such tasks and durations, when talking "productivity".
And when a good keyboard is a must, even the best solution combined with a tablet is at least as bulky as my MacBook Air. And mobility is part of productivity as well.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Faterson

..As to Bluetooth and battery life, I wish I knew what you're referring to...

I don't have a bluetooth keyboard for my iPad. But I've used one on my iPhone. You could snap it on, kind of a BackBerry then. And here Bluetooth did drain my batty on iPhone drastically faster. And it kind of made sense to me. Everyone is telling you, WiFi drains the battery. Why should it be differently for Bluetooth? Anyway: it was pretty obvious. But then again: I find the battery on iPhones4 and 4S drain too fast anyway. Especially after the update to iOS7, I can't make it for more than half a day...

So, the battery might not be affected much when Bluetooth "isn't doing anything". But if you type 10 pages via Bluetooth keyboard?

[PatNY]

My 2 cents ...

While mgmueller may have been using a little hyperbole, I think he is closer to the truth. For many people -- not all but a good many such as myself-- a tablet just can't provide the power or versatility to handle the most intensive tasks I do frequently on a normal laptop. For example --

• Writing and editing text for long periods of time
• Managing and photoshopping photos
• Managing and converting eBooks
• Managing and converting music files

Some of this is for work, and some of this is for pleasure, but regardless, they are all critical tasks for me and I just can't do any of it on any normal tablet.

This is why I find the Windows Surface Pro intriguing. Months ago I tested the keyboard at a store and it works really well and feels really good. However, if I get one of these hybrid tablet/PCs, it's likely to be something like the new Asus T100. It costs less than half the price of the Surface Pro, so that 4 years after you buy it, you have less to worry about when the battery is nearly dead. With the Surface Pro, it would cost me $1000+ to get a decent setup and the battery can't even be replaced by Microsoft. I can't afford to throw away that type of money every 3-4 years.

Tablets are really great and they are better for some things than PCs or laptops -- like watching movies or reading digital media. But they can't run lots of programs like Photoshop, Adobe Acrobat, iTunes, OneNote, Foobar2000, Calibre and Sigil. So that's why they can't come close to replacing a regular PC. Or why I would never even consider a Chromebook.

--Pat

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Faterson

The trouble is, the new Opera version is supposed to share Chrome's rendering engine, and therefore lose many of its previous features. I hope that's not true. I'm sticking with classic Opera.

They will be switching to Chrome's rendering engine, that is to say, together with Chrome they are moving from WebKit to a fork of WebKit called Blink. Before that, they both used WebKit, together with Safari and a whole lot of other programs that aren't browsers but still use html-based layout.

However, this will not remove any features whatsoever.

WebKit (as people call it) is made of three components: WebCore, which parses html, JavaScriptCore, which parses JavaScript, and the true WebKit, which is a wrapper that integrates both these engines into the browser, and which only Safari uses. Chromium, which is the parent of both Chrome and now Opera, only uses WebCore. For Javascript, they use Google's own renderer named V8. I'm not sure what they call their wrapper.

The purpose of all this is only to tell the browser what a webpage should look like. These components are only part of what a browser is. As you can see, even though Chrome, Safari, Amazon Silk, and others all use Webkit's WebCore html renderer, they remain very different products. The UI is where all the features live, and that remains in Opera's sole usage. If they were to use Chrome's feature-set then they would BE chrome and get downloaded from www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/ and everything.

Now, I have heard people saying they believe Opera's Presto rendering engine was faster, but I've never used it and don't know. That would be the only difference I can think of. I would seriously advise against sticking with old versions of Opera either way, though. If you don't like new Opera, it might be time to switch browsers, rather than remain stuck on one that will no longer get security bugfixes. And before you make up your mind try out the new version. Opera 12.16 with the Presto renderer came out on July 4, and all later versions, 15-17, use Blink. If by latest version you mean 17, then you may already be using 16 which uses it also, and not even realize it since it as far as I am aware should work exactly the same on the surface.

Unfortunately, Apple's WebKit is buggy as well, which has consequences for iOS e-readers relying on WebKit's rendering engine. As an illustration of a WebKit deficiency, take the inability to easily highlight (select) words on a webpage across paragraph boundaries... there is this "paragraph snapping" that selects the entire paragraph instead, even if that was not your intention. No such problems with selecting/highlighting text on Android...

It's not that WebKit is flawed, as I said when we say WebKit we really mean WebCore.

Any browser-using App in iOS is not using WebKit( -Core), it is using SAFARI as an embedded process. So whatever Safari does, Chrome/FireFox/Atomic/anything for iOS will do too, since the only thing Apple allows them to do is use custom software to deal with tabbing, bookmarks, saved prefs/prefs in general, Chrome sync, etc. then apply that to an embedded Safari process.

Still, that isn't really relevant, I guess.

the important thing is this -- despite that flaw, and whatever other flaws there are, (I am not an expert on the matter,) you cannot deny that it is a powerful engine capable of far more than Internet Explorer will ever be able to.

UNLESS they (Microsoft) someday get around to making their Trident engine compatible with current standards. Right now, however, they play a constant year-by-year game of catch-up-to the-state-of-the-internet-as-it-was-2-years-ago. And they do everything in a non-standard fashion ON TOP OF THAT which stops developers from being able to get stuff working on IE until they have the time to pretty much code a special version of the site for IE, using conditional comments.

[Faterson]

Folks, this is getting way off-topic. Please look at the thread title. Based on the recent posts, it would need to be renamed to "General IT talk".

I will only reiterate to mgmueller: my work is different from yours. I absolutely spend many, many hours per day being productive on my iDevices, without needing to use the keyboard (onscreen or hardware) heavily. Feel free to launch a new thread to discuss details, if you wish.

Second important point: you guys as if seem to expect the tablet to replace the need for a notebook. I couldn't disagree more. Please think of Steve Jobs's keynote when he presented the original iPad. Jobs clearly defined it as a device in between a mobile phone and a notebook. It is not meant to replace either of them -- it's supposed to be better than either of them at performing certain tasks. And that's exactly what the iPad accomplishes. (Reading books is the first among those tasks, since we're in MobileRead forums.) Again, if you wish to discuss this in more detail, please launch a new thread, as it has nothing to do with the subject matter of the current thread.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by PatNY

...1000+ to get a decent setup and the battery can't even be replaced by Microsoft. I can't afford to throw away that type of money every 3-4 years...

Faterson is right of course, we're a bit off topic here.
But let me comment this last one:

I have a simple calculation for my personal ROI model:
a.) As it's a tool for work, it should be tax-deductible. Meaning, at the end you pay maybe 65% of it.
b.) The resell-value of such gadgets is enormously high. I've had an offer in Amazon for my 5 months old Surface Pro Gen1, only 20% below it's original buying price. A friend of mine sold his iPad 1 a year ago for still € 400 = 50% of the buying price.
Meaning:
If you aim for it, you can have such gadgets and pay only about 1/3rd yourself.

And re. the battery:
From what I've read and experienced so far, batteries nowadays are predicted to live through 1.000 charges.
We don't have any long-term experiences with Surface yet. But battery of my iPad 1 still keeps up surprisingly well after 3,5 years of frequent usage.

Battery on Surface Pro 2 keeps up for about 10 hours. So I assume maybe 200 to 250 charges per year.
This would make for a lifespan of >4 years.
But that's assuming 100% on battery alone. Personally, I'm only on battery on the train and sometimes at home. About 50% I'm using my Surface Pro while plugged in.
So this would make for a theoretical lifespan of maybe 6 to 8 years.
Personally, I don't bother.
In 1 year there will be the next best thing anyway.
And after 3 to 4 years, depending on the gadget, it's out of the tax-deduction anyway.

Each one is different of course.
But I don't think, lifespan of the battery really is an issue.
Some may worry about warranty: What if the battery doesn't loose capacity, but dies for whatever reason and can't be replaced?
But here I simply rely on my user experience so far:
Of all my >100 tablets and readers (counting the ones I bought for friends), only a handful did have problems so far.
iRex 1000 had a defective screen from the beginning which was replaced via warranty.
iRex iLiad, after years without any usage, didn't work anymore a few months ago, when I wanted to give it to a friend. Sad because of nostalgic reasons. But not having used it for maybe 3 years, realistically I won't really miss it.
Meaning:
So far, none of those gadgets died on me while still in use.
Either they're defective from the start ("Monday unit") or they loose capacity because the battery discharges over months.
But about a gadget in frequent use I wouldn't worry.

[slayda]

I think the more I hear about iOS 7, the more I'm glad I've stayed with 6. Maybe I can wait for iOS 8 which will hopefully address all the 7 problems.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Faterson is right of course, we're a bit off topic here.
But let me comment this last one:

I have a simple calculation for my personal ROI model:
a.) As it's a tool for work, it should be tax-deductible. Meaning, at the end you pay maybe 65% of it.
b.) The resell-value of such gadgets is enormously high. I've had an offer in Amazon for my 5 months old Surface Pro Gen1, only 20% below it's original buying price. A friend of mine sold his iPad 1 a year ago for still € 400 = 50% of the buying price.
Meaning:
If you aim for it, you can have such gadgets and pay only about 1/3rd yourself.

And re. the battery:
From what I've read and experienced so far, batteries nowadays are predicted to live through 1.000 charges.
We don't have any long-term experiences with Surface yet. But battery of my iPad 1 still keeps up surprisingly well after 3,5 years of frequent usage.

Battery on Surface Pro 2 keeps up for about 10 hours. So I assume maybe 200 to 250 charges per year.
This would make for a lifespan of >4 years.
But that's assuming 100% on battery alone. Personally, I'm only on battery on the train and sometimes at home. About 50% I'm using my Surface Pro while plugged in.
So this would make for a theoretical lifespan of maybe 6 to 8 years.
Personally, I don't bother.
In 1 year there will be the next best thing anyway.
And after 3 to 4 years, depending on the gadget, it's out of the tax-deduction anyway.

Each one is different of course.
But I don't think, lifespan of the battery really is an issue.
Some may worry about warranty: What if the battery doesn't loose capacity, but dies for whatever reason and can't be replaced?
But here I simply rely on my user experience so far:
Of all my >100 tablets and readers (counting the ones I bought for friends), only a handful did have problems so far.
iRex 1000 had a defective screen from the beginning which was replaced via warranty.
iRex iLiad, after years without any usage, didn't work anymore a few months ago, when I wanted to give it to a friend. Sad because of nostalgic reasons. But not having used it for maybe 3 years, realistically I won't really miss it.
Meaning:
So far, none of those gadgets died on me while still in use.
Either they're defective from the start ("Monday unit") or they loose capacity because the battery discharges over months.
But about a gadget in frequent use I wouldn't worry.

Battery university has a pretty good article on lithium ion battery life.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

In short, the lifespan of your battery will vary dramatically depending on how you take care of it. For instance, all things being equal, if you completely drain the battery every time before recharging you will get 300-500 discharge cycles until battery only has 70% of its original capacity. If you charge after 50% drain, you get 1200-1500 discharge cycles