why the fuss over epub?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Joseph R

I do believe your two Sony Models connect to a Computer through USB and are able to use Abode Digital Edition, If I am correct. Your identity would be confirmed through your connecting computer to the Cloud and therefore, you can upload to your device through USB.

What has that got to do with the cloud? If I have to store the books locally, whether they're provided from a cloud or a specific publisher/store/whatever server is irrelevant.

I can download & export-to-device now. I can do it from cloud-based stores and non-cloud based stores. Are you saying that I'll be able to, for example, log into my account from a different machine (say, at a public library), and download to my device, rather than needing to use software connected to my computer?

I thought the point of the cloud would be that you wouldn't store a copy locally--you'd be constantly connected, so they wouldn't have to provide you a (crackable) copy of the content; it'd be streamed, not downloaded with intent to keep.

(And right now, although 3 of the 4 ebook readers in the house are ADE-compatible, we don't have an ADE account. I don't do DRM, not even for freebies. I won't say I'd never change, but it'd take a much more compelling argument than "our store is available from library computers too!" to lose my ability to buy books readable on both my Sony and my daughter's Kindle.)

That is where the interests of the customer and the content provider conflict. Legally, when you buy content, you own the physical property of it; e.g.: The paper of a book, the DVD on which the movie is printed on, but not the Intellectual property (IP).

Depends on the seller, and what the terms of sale.

This is why you have a FBI (Interpol) warning before each movie, the expression "All Rights Reserved" written with. the ISBN and printing information of a book.

Which is often false. Many of them say "no part of this may be reproduced in any way without written permission from the publisher," or similar phrasing--which is not true. Fair use allows quoting for reviews, critique, education, parody, and so on.

Yes, I see and understand your frustration, and yes, I hope that content providers WILL recognized that demographic that are happy with what they have, but I doubt it. Consider how we were pushed to go from VHS to DVD, cassettes to CD.

I don't have to "hope;" I have easy access to more ebook content than I can read in my lifetime. If no more DRM-free ebooks were published, ever, I could happily continue to read for the rest of my life. Since I don't think open publishing is going to *stop* in the near future, I don't really care what the "agency 6" decide on for a business model. If they want me to buy their books, they'll offer them in a format I'll buy.

I'd feel a bit limited if I were constrained entirely to Project Gutenberg and the Archive of Our Own, plus whatever I chop and scan for myself--but I wouldn't be lacking in quality reading material.

[DrDln]

Why should there be fuss over epub? This is the future and is always going to be here.

[howyoudoin]

As long as the Kindle doesn't support epub, I'll convert them to mobi using Calibre.

If Kindle starts supporting epub through a firmware upgrade, I'll save on one step.

If the current Kindle won't support epub ever, but future Kindles do, it still won't be the one single reason that convinces me to upgrade. The actual hardware improvements, colour e-ink, the affordability - those will be the factors I'll consider.

In short, I'm not losing sleep over Kindle not supporting epub.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

As long as the Kindle doesn't support epub, I'll convert them to mobi using Calibre.

If Kindle starts supporting epub through a firmware upgrade, I'll save on one step.

If the current Kindle won't support epub ever, but future Kindles do, it still won't be the one single reason that convinces me to upgrade. The actual hardware improvements, colour e-ink, the affordability - those will be the factors I'll consider.

In short, I'm not losing sleep over Kindle not supporting epub.

Since the PRS-500 can support ePub via ADE, there is no reason ALL of the Kindles cannot support ePub.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Since the PRS-500 can support ePub via ADE, there is no reason ALL of the Kindles cannot support ePub.

Except the development cost of the firmware. I don't see the original Kindle or any Kindle 2 ever supporting ePub (except through a third-party hack). I think it's just possible that they might do an update for the Kindle 3 if the Kindle 4 (or whatever their next reader is called) supports ePub, but I rather doubt it.

[kranu]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Since the PRS-500 can support ePub via ADE, there is no reason ALL of the Kindles cannot support ePub.

Why would Amazon bother adding ePub support? Amazon doesn't use it at all.

Your argument is the equivalent of: Since my truck can support diesel, there is no reason ALL of the Toyotas cannot support diesel.

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by kranu

Why would Amazon bother adding ePub support? Amazon doesn't use it at all.

Your argument is the equivalent of: Since my truck can support diesel, there is no reason ALL of the Toyotas cannot support diesel.

Wrong comparison. The purpose of fuel is to make it possible to operate the car and not the reason why we operate the car. It is similar to being able to recharge the Kindle from the wall outlet providing 110 or 220 V electricity. Most consumer devices including Kindle have universal adapter for 100-240 V 50/60 Hz AC but there are many gadgets that are designed for specific markets and require exact voltage.

The Kindle is like a car that can be driven only on certain roads. Imagine that you bought a Toyota that could be driven only on toll roads. Not because of technical issues but for some strange legal or financial reason, for example, because Toyota Inc. had an agreement with toll road owners and received a percentage of toll fees.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by karunaji

The Kindle is like a car that can be driven only on certain roads. Imagine that you bought a Toyota that could be driven only on toll roads. Not because of technical issues but for some strange legal or financial reason, for example, because Toyota Inc. had an agreement with toll road owners and received a percentage of toll fees.

To extend a poor analogy further, it is more like that you can drive on the road, you just have to be in a particular lane. The proportion of books that are not available to Kindle owners is very small.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

To extend a poor analogy further, it is more like that you can drive on the road, you just have to be in a particular lane. The proportion of books that are not available to Kindle owners is very small.

In fact, given the number of independent authors who are publishing on the Kindle Store only, I'm pretty sure that the total number of books available to Kindle owners exceeds that available to owners of ePub devices. The reality of the situation of course is that all "mainstream" ebooks are available in both formats.

[kranu]

Originally Posted by karunaji

Wrong comparison. The purpose of fuel is to make it possible to operate the car and not the reason why we operate the car. It is similar to being able to recharge the Kindle from the wall outlet providing 110 or 220 V electricity.

.. What?

Trust me, if the Kindle charger only supported a certain voltage (say the US one), people wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. They'd just buy a compatible charger (or charge over USB), and be done with it. They wouldn't say.. OH NO! The Kindle comes with a power adapter that does not work in my country! That's a major downside, and it's one reason why I bought the nook over the kindle.

[kranu]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

To extend a poor analogy further, it is more like that you can drive on the road, you just have to be in a particular lane. The proportion of books that are not available to Kindle owners is very small.

Hmmm.. that's not the case. ePub and mobi are two different formats. Different lanes in a road are the same format.

A better example would be:

You buy a car, you can only drive on the road. You can't drive on the railroad tracks.

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by kranu

A better example would be:

You buy a car, you can only drive on the road. You can't drive on the railroad tracks.

No, that's even worse example. The more precise would be that you have a car that can drive on all free public roads (with some recalibration (Calibre) of tires) but only on certain toll roads. In fact, there are two types of cars A and B and A cars can drive only on A type toll roads (mobi) and B cars can drive only on B toll roads (epub). In most cases roads A and B are build parallel to each other so it is not an issue for majority of drivers.

The entrance on road A or B are controlled by a sensor device that checks tires for specific hidden patterns (DRM). In rare cases when there is only one road that does not correspond your car type, you can install a special tire-pads (de-DRM) to cheat the toll-road sensor. The procedure is simple and cheap and many do this although it is illegal.

[kranu]

Originally Posted by karunaji

No, that's even worse example. The more precise would be that you have a car that can drive on all free public roads (with some recalibration (Calibre) of tires) but only on certain toll roads. In fact, there are two types of cars A and B and A cars can drive only on A type toll roads (mobi) and B cars can drive only on B toll roads (epub). In most cases roads A and B are build parallel to each other so it is not an issue for majority of drivers.

The entrance on road A or B are controlled by a sensor device that checks tires for specific hidden patterns (DRM). In rare cases when there is only one road that does not correspond your car type, you can install a special tire-pads (de-DRM) to cheat the toll-road sensor. The procedure is simple and cheap and many do this although it is illegal.

Why is mine worse? IMO, yours is at best the same quality. It's too complicated to get a simple point across, and it seems kind of forced. Also, if the toll road owners don't want you to ride on it, that's fine with me; it's a private road. It's totally different from saying, similar to your previous example, only a certain brand of cars can ride in the carpool lane.

[DiapDealer]

Analogies... they're only ever 100% apropos to their own authors. And their relevance is usually inversely proportional to their complexity.

This particular analogy train left the tracks a long time ago.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by kranu

Hmmm.. that's not the case. ePub and mobi are two different formats. Different lanes in a road are the same format.

A better example would be:

You buy a car, you can only drive on the road. You can't drive on the railroad tracks.

A better analogy is DVD. The Kindle is akin to HD-DVD and ADE is akin to Blu-Ray DVD. You currently need different hardware to be able to read the different disc formats. Like you need a Kindle to read Mobipocket/AZW and you need a reader from anyone else to read ePub.

The problem comes down to the fact that Amazon wants control of the eBooks that they sell. They don't want people to go to other stores to bu say the latest NY Times best seller. So Amazon makes it so they are they only ones who sell Mobipocket with AZW DRM and have the only reader that can display this. Sony used to be just like that with BBeB (LRX) but Sony went with ADE and now you can buy eBooks from other shops that work fine on a Sony Reader. Everyone else's dedicated reader has gone to ePub except Amazon. Mobipocket is dead. eReader is dying. MS Reader is dead. So why is Amazon not going with ePub when everyone else is? The think is, do we want Amazon to be #1 world wide when they have an inferior format?

The problem comes in when someone with reader A wants to buy reader B or the other way round with reader B being a Kindle and reader A ADE capable reader. The library they have won't move. So either they have to keep both readers or lose their previous library.

It would be best for users world wide if all readers supported the same format with the same DRM.