Amazon censorship

[dacattt]

Originally Posted by bjones6416

I was just wondering if any MobileRead members had first-hand experience with this happening. Apparently not, or at least nobody has that is willing to share his/her experience.

The story has gone viral, but a couple of the authors are replying to comments on some blog formats, and one or two of the customers who had them disappear from the archive and talked to customer service are commenting. BUT, I was reading comments elsewhere, before getting back to this post, so I'm not sure which link it's on.

Here's a good link, author is there and still commenting (warning over 200 comments). Joe Konrath has Selena repeat the original post to a wider audience this morning, but the comments give a lot more detail. Also links into the Amazon thread.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2010/1...lena-kitt.html

Ars technica has actually gotten a reply from Amazon.
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/20...ed-fiction.ars

Update: An Amazon spokesperson has responded to our query by saying that the books violated Amazon's content guidelines. As for the books being deleted from users' Kindles: "Due to a technical issue, for a short window of time three books were temporarily unavailable for re-download by customers who had previously purchased them. When this was brought to our attention, we fixed the problem and those books were once again made available for re-download. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Those books that were "temporarily unavailable for re-download" turn out to be the same books that were removed .

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

My understanding of "adult business treatment" includes "telling people the conditions under which you will do business with them."

Many companies -- including but certainly not limited to Amazon and Apple -- are notoriously tight-lipped about such matters.

If she doesn't like their rules, she is perfectly capable of working with other retailers, and directing people to them.

[doreenjoy]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

After someone called those who do read these types of books "godless" I'm not sure if anyone is brave enough to come forward.

I also do not like my personal reading choices judged by the people I give money to to purchase a product. If I wanted to be judged I'd go to church.

Or come to MR and post about my reading habits on the forums.

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

The government didn't take over industry and agriculture in Nazi Germany. They remained under private ownership. The US exercised a lot more central control over its economy in WWII than Germany did...and central control over a wartime economy seems be the best way to win the war (if it's a WWII-style total war, anyway).

And the *collapse* of the communist system and the Nazi system didn't result in millions of deaths; the deaths occurred while the systems were operating. (Although, to be fair, 3/4 of the Nazi deaths were caused by the communist system, in a sense).

But none of this has much to do with Amazon's deals with self-published authors.

China and the Ukraine are in Nazi Germany? This is news to me... It would be most helpful if you paid attention to the discussion that is taking place.

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by elcreative

You're wrong, their is a big difference between school library/nation and a shop. Censorship at the school library/nation level consists of an attack on our ability to access anything at all. A shop refusing to sell an item gives the potential customer and originator, options to purchase/sell elsewhere... now if every shop in the country/world chooses not to sell an item then you may have a problem... that is NOT the case here. This is an "alleged" removal of an item by Amazon who have every right to do so... it says so in the T&C that the author agrees to when selling a book on Amazon and applies to paper just as much as eBooks but it doesn't stop the author selling from another outlet or their own website... if it isn't on Amazon then use a search engine to find it...

And if a school bans a book, you could easily go to the county library or a book store, yes? So you see, a school is similar to a business.

It does not cease being censorship just because you could find another avenue of access to the media. It may mean that the instance of censorship is not as severe.

[dacattt]

I was just wondering if any MobileRead members had first-hand experience with this happening. Apparently not, or at least nobody has that is willing to share his/her experience.

So it's not he-said/she-said.... here's a few links from over on Amazon, by folks it's happened to.

There's 2 customers posting comments about their direct experiences, plus 2 authors:
http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/for...ype=tagsDetail

This thread from mid November seems to be the start, or one example of the start of this. You'll have to open up thread that say 'users don't think this adds to discussion' since there's a lot of hostility against the lady who complained about disappearing books.... and wanted them back. (Note: these are different books, same type. Customer was offered a refund or coupon.) Warning: it's long, actual customers' experieces at beginning and end of the thread:
http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/for...x1Q5O45LKWEGYE


Net takeaway... if you really want to keep your books, don't depend on the publisher to keep your books for you. Back them up.

And remember... eventually you upgrade devices, or upgrade your computer, those files you backed... if they're still DRMed... won't be readable on the new device.

So, you'd better hope they haven't decided to ban your reading choices by then.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by CleverClothe

And if a school bans a book, you could easily go to the county library or a book store, yes? So you see, a school is similar to a business.

Of course it isn't!

[devilsadvocate]

Originally Posted by CleverClothe

And if a school bans a book, you could easily go to the county library or a book store, yes? So you see, a school is similar to a business.

Not a public school in the U.S., which is funded by taxpayer dollars and the occasional tithe from a state lottery fund. Further, a (non-college) school has a student body made up of minor children who are protected by various statutes from material deemed offensive (or, as the FCC likes to say, "in the prurient interest"). Where that line exists is determined by the community being served; history shows that if a book is banned in a public school, you'll have to go a lot further than the local library to find it, as there's a good chance it's banned there as well.

A business is regulated by a totally different set of laws and acts as a for-profit entity with completely different priorities. Amazon's priority right now is the holiday shopping season. As long as they adhere to the law, they can sell (and more to the point, not sell) whatever they like, and they can make that distinction arbitrarily. Taking the already-purchased ebook "back" without notice or a refund is absurd, however, and Amazon screwed up on that one without a doubt.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

Or come to MR and post about my reading habits on the forums.

ROFL....I could do that too.

[crich70]

If you're referring to Abraham and Issac I think you are taking things out of context a bit. God was just testing Abraham to see if he would really obey him and in fact Abraham was prevented from going through with it via an angel as I recall. As for the topic of Amazon's removing of the books while I agree that they have the right to remove anything from their system that they wish I do feel that they should have sent out a statement beforehand. If they can send out an advertisement of which books are the most popular for the current month then they could send out a statement that "books of nature or type x which have previously been published on Amazon will be removed from their servers, customers archives, etc. by date y" so that people who have bought the book(s) in question will know to save them either to their kindle device or some other media so that they still have them (if they wish). That isn't just a good business policy, that's something known as common courtesy as well. Most book publishers have guidelines that spell out what genre/type of written material they will accept for publication and I understand from reading some of the other posts here that Amazon's guidelines are vague at best. They need to clarify things without being discourteous to the customer. Without customers a business ceases to be a business after all. Do you think Microsoft would stay open if everyone stopped buying Windows OS? Hardly, they would go out of business and while it's not realistic to think that Amazon will go out of business over night over this matter they are no doubt causing themselves a great deal of hurt by their apparent unilateral handling of things of late. Nothing travels faster than bad publicity.

Originally Posted by rhadin

The Old Testament wasn't written to arouse sexual desire but it was written to justify genocide, murder, and many other things that we consider morally repugnant, including human sacrifice.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by CleverClothe

Is this lie still getting repeated?

WWI, WWII and the American Civil War were extremely bloody and had nothing to do with religion.

It seems to me the top causes of violence are something like this:

1) Greed
2) Racism/Xenophobia
3) Religion

Not quite accurate.

The the leading cause of U.S. Civil War was slavery, which was justified on bible teachings (among many other justifications). Slave owners for centuries justified slavery based on the bible. Remember the slaves in Egypt. The bible/god demands that only the Jewish slaves be let go, not all slaves.

WWII also had a religious angle to it, the Nazi belief that christians were superior to nonchristians and there was a duty to eliminate nonchristians. Granted the Nazi beliefs were also mixed up with other theories/theologies, but don't discount the underlying christian vs. nonchristian theme.

Religion rears its head in many forms, often as justification for some atrocious act that otherwise cannot be morally justified in a civilized world.

[DavidI]

But slave owners didn't own slaves so that they could reach spiritual salvation. They owned slaves so that they could make money off of their labor, and the slave owners were racist. The Germans in WWII were also racist and envious of the Jews power and money. Religion may have played some role in that conflict but racism and greed played far stronger roles.

[DavidI]

According to Arstechnica an Amazon representative said the following in regards to removal of books from the download area, "Due to a technical issue, for a short window of time three books were temporarily unavailable for re-download by customers who had previously purchased them. When this was brought to our attention, we fixed the problem and those books were once again made available for re-download. We apologize for the inconvenience."

So it looks as if Amazon has decided to no longer sell the books, but they were not removed from anyone's Kindles and they are still available for download from a customers archive. You just can't buy them anymore.

Personally, I'd prefer Amazon didn't censor any book that was legal (atleast when it comes to fiction books -- I'm not as concerned about them banning the non-fiction pedophilia book).

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by DavidI

Personally, I'd prefer Amazon didn't censor any book that was legal (atleast when it comes to fiction books -- I'm not as concerned about them banning the non-fiction pedophilia book).

I make no distinction between fiction and non-fiction. Also, I have no problem with a private company censoring content. It's their company and they can do what they want. If I don't like it, I'm free to shop elsewhere.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by DavidI

Personally, I'd prefer Amazon didn't censor any book that was legal....

Amazon is under no obligation to distribute anything and everything.

It doesn't matter how big they are, how many other titles they offer, or even some inconsistencies (alleged or real) in what they pull.

If they don't want to carry a book, they should not have to carry it.