Seriousness Electric Cars : BYD - Page 12

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-06-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

You think it's so important that you repeat yourself?

Actually, I do... and it's not as if members on this site don't repeat themselves often!

Since the majority of the people who would be considered ideal for electrics are, by definition, in or near major metropolitan areas... they are most likely to be within easy range of public trans, a vehicle rental service or another, or a system like Zipcar. Also, we could expect more services like those to appear and expand to meet the demand of short-range vehicle owners who occasionally needed longer-range vehicles. Chances are the weekend demand would be hardest to satisfy, and some services would offer to reserve vehicles for frequent or premium users (ie, big spenders). Other services, like U-Haul, would see increased business as more people opted to rent a truck for a day's use (the way I do it), thereby saving the cost of an owned truck that was used to its full capacity only a few times a year (very common among America's non-rural residents).

wodin · 05-06-2010, 02:27 PM

I'm in a unique position of being caregiver to my wife who is confined to a power wheelchair. She has a ramp van that she can drive her wheelchair into, transfer to the driver’s seat and be independent.

That means that my second car is for my use alone as any time she is with me we HAVE to use the van. I can easily live with a 100 mile range, as my daily commute is only 10 miles round trip, plus incidental errands.

If I were in the market for a new car, my Saturn/Opel Astra is only 16 months old with 9,000 miles, and had the infrastructure issues resolved; a new Leaf would be a perfect fit for me, even though electricity costs here are the highest in the US.

Joebill · 05-06-2010, 06:46 PM

Commute distances...

That would depend on your personal situation.

I know many people in my area drive 50-140 miles one way every day to do construction work. Say, Biloxi, Mississippi to New Orleans, LA or over to Mobile, Alabama.

I grew up in an area of Texas well away form the big cities. The distances were typically 10-20 miles to buy groceries. The next town was 10 miles away. My dad worked 30 miles away. For us to have lived closer to his job would have cost too much. Some of my relativeso ut in west Texas drove once a week to buy groceries, it was too far for daily trips.

I know some folks on the east coast of the US who drive less than 20 miles from job, to home, to buy food. So it would be ideal for them, the cities all run together where they live.

wodin · 05-06-2010, 08:11 PM

Here's how to keep your batteries charged. This article is from 1974, so inflation will have bumped the cost up, but you should still be able to build this thing for less than a grand, that is, of course, if you can only get the neighborhood board to buy off on it.

Sweetpea · 05-07-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Actually, I do... and it's not as if members on this site don't repeat themselves often!

Since the majority of the people who would be considered ideal for electrics are, by definition, in or near major metropolitan areas... they are most likely to be within easy range of public trans, a vehicle rental service or another, or a system like Zipcar. Also, we could expect more services like those to appear and expand to meet the demand of short-range vehicle owners who occasionally needed longer-range vehicles. Chances are the weekend demand would be hardest to satisfy, and some services would offer to reserve vehicles for frequent or premium users (ie, big spenders). Other services, like U-Haul, would see increased business as more people opted to rent a truck for a day's use (the way I do it), thereby saving the cost of an owned truck that was used to its full capacity only a few times a year (very common among America's non-rural residents).

Maybe in the US, but most certainly not here. Take my situation, for example. I live 35km away from work (so, well within reach for a full electric car). The closest railway station is 7km away. If I would take the train, I'd have to take my bike, bike that 7km (around 30 minutes) (not enough parking space near the station, it's only a small town, I think most Americans would call it a village

), then take a 30 minute train ride, and then at the main station, walk 30 minutes to my work location. So, total time: 1 hour 30 minutes. While, if I take the car, I'm at work between 30 and 45 minutes (depending a bit on other traffic and traffic lights).

The distances here (in the Netherlands, and most of Europe) are completely different from the US. But I think you must have seen both sides before you can really see that (it took me some time adjusting to the distances when I was in New Mexico...)

HarryT · 05-07-2010, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Maybe in the US, but most certainly not here. Take my situation, for example. I live 35km away from work (so, well within reach for a full electric car). The closest railway station is 7km away. If I would take the train, I'd have to take my bike, bike that 7km (around 30 minutes) (not enough parking space near the station, it's only a small town, I think most Americans would call it a village

), then take a 30 minute train ride, and then at the main station, walk 30 minutes to my work location. So, total time: 1 hour 30 minutes. While, if I take the car, I'm at work between 30 and 45 minutes (depending a bit on other traffic and traffic lights).

Much the same for me. My car journey into work is 19 miles, and takes 30-40 minutes. Public transport would involve a bus (or cycle) 4 miles to the railway station, then a train journey, then at least 2 or 3 different buses to travel the 6 miles or so from the nearest station to where I work; all of which would probably take at least 2 hours. Again, the "Leaf" would be the ideal commuter vehicle for me.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-07-2010, 08:40 AM

Those distances aren't that unusual... many U.S. suburbanites (including myself) deal with distances like that regularly. At the moment, I compromise by driving 4 miles to a train station (I chose my home location according to its proximity to the commuter rail and bus lines). If the parking situation changes --as, indeed, it is slated to in the master plan, but that could be 5-50 years from now

--I can take a bus, or ride my bike. A short-distance electric would work for me, and a 100-mile range EV would be more than I need just for standard daily use.

Yes, I could jump in my car--or on my motorcycle, when I had it--and get to the office quicker on most days. But do I really need to shave that much time off of my day? Not really. I am content to take my time, especially if it benefits the environment and uses less oil.

Obviously, access to public trans, terrain in your area, etc, play a factor in personal accessibility... I have taken pains to say that EVs won't be right for everyone, but they will serve for most. It only makes sense: In this internet age, most of us in developed areas need to travel less. As we reach that social stage, it's logical that a vehicle with lesser range will still work for those people.

And as many people originally chose where to live and work according to where personal and public transportation made convenient, as I did--and as those distances increased with the development of the ICE--I expect people to re-evaluate those choices against the realities of EVs, and their impact on other forms of transportation, and act accordingly. Cities and surrounding areas may see some significant changes, if the "daily range" of personal vehicles is seen to change. People may move closer to city and town centers... local town centers will develop closer to more distant suburbs... public trans routes will shift to better accommodate the changing traffic patterns... the idea and location of the "ideal community" will change.

At least, all of these things have happened before. There's little reason to think they won't happen again.

HarryT · 05-09-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And as many people originally chose where to live and work according to where personal and public transportation made convenient, as I did--and as those distances increased with the development of the ICE--I expect people to re-evaluate those choices against the realities of EVs, and their impact on other forms of transportation, and act accordingly. Cities and surrounding areas may see some significant changes, if the "daily range" of personal vehicles is seen to change.

Very true. It was the development of public transport in British cities in the mid 19th century which led to the explosive growth of the suburbs - people no longer needed to live within walking distance of their place of employment.

GeoffC · 05-09-2010, 08:36 AM

trials in the UK have suggested that drivers of electric cars suffer from distance anxiety; especially when the car battery gets to as low as 50% charge.....

HarryT · 05-09-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

trials in the UK have suggested that drivers of electric cars suffer from distance anxiety; especially when the car battery gets to as low as 50% charge.....

Some people feel the same about petrol cars

. I never let mine get below about 1/4 full before refilling it.

GeoffC · 05-09-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Some people feel the same about petrol cars

. I never let mine get below about 1/4 full before refilling it.

ah - but with a petrol vehicle one can usually find a pump .....

HarryT · 05-09-2010, 09:23 AM

Yes, I guess with an electric car it's not so much the finding a power socket that's an issue, but the time it takes to recharge.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 05-09-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

ah - but with a petrol vehicle one can usually find a pump .....

Key point, that. Clearly drivers must be assured that before their batteries run out, they can recharge, extend their range or find a place to wait until they can continue on. Maybe we can expect to see an explosion of places where people can hang for a bit while their vehicles recharge... hopefully it won't turn out to be the latest in fast food chains.

GeoffC · 05-09-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Key point, that. Clearly drivers must be assured that before their batteries run out, they can recharge, extend their range or find a place to wait until they can continue on. Maybe we can expect to see an explosion of places where people can hang for a bit while their vehicles recharge... hopefully it won't turn out to be the latest in fast food chains.

I can certainly see these kind of partnerships developing, likes of Tesco/WalMart/McDonalds/even cinema chains etc....

HarryT · 05-09-2010, 09:56 AM

I know it's not electric, but I'm lusting after one of these:

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05-06-2010, 02:27 PM	#167
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	I'm in a unique position of being caregiver to my wife who is confined to a power wheelchair. She has a ramp van that she can drive her wheelchair into, transfer to the driver’s seat and be independent. That means that my second car is for my use alone as any time she is with me we HAVE to use the van. I can easily live with a 100 mile range, as my daily commute is only 10 miles round trip, plus incidental errands. If I were in the market for a new car, my Saturn/Opel Astra is only 16 months old with 9,000 miles, and had the infrastructure issues resolved; a new Leaf would be a perfect fit for me, even though electricity costs here are the highest in the US.

05-06-2010, 06:46 PM	#168
Joebill Fanatic Posts: 517 Karma: 459442 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alpha Centauri's Library of Alexandria Device: Pandigital Novel	Commute distances... That would depend on your personal situation. I know many people in my area drive 50-140 miles one way every day to do construction work. Say, Biloxi, Mississippi to New Orleans, LA or over to Mobile, Alabama. I grew up in an area of Texas well away form the big cities. The distances were typically 10-20 miles to buy groceries. The next town was 10 miles away. My dad worked 30 miles away. For us to have lived closer to his job would have cost too much. Some of my relativeso ut in west Texas drove once a week to buy groceries, it was too far for daily trips. I know some folks on the east coast of the US who drive less than 20 miles from job, to home, to buy food. So it would be ideal for them, the cities all run together where they live.

05-06-2010, 08:11 PM	#169
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	Here's how to keep your batteries charged. This article is from 1974, so inflation will have bumped the cost up, but you should still be able to build this thing for less than a grand, that is, of course, if you can only get the neighborhood board to buy off on it.

05-07-2010, 08:40 AM	#172
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Those distances aren't that unusual... many U.S. suburbanites (including myself) deal with distances like that regularly. At the moment, I compromise by driving 4 miles to a train station (I chose my home location according to its proximity to the commuter rail and bus lines). If the parking situation changes --as, indeed, it is slated to in the master plan, but that could be 5-50 years from now --I can take a bus, or ride my bike. A short-distance electric would work for me, and a 100-mile range EV would be more than I need just for standard daily use. Yes, I could jump in my car--or on my motorcycle, when I had it--and get to the office quicker on most days. But do I really need to shave that much time off of my day? Not really. I am content to take my time, especially if it benefits the environment and uses less oil. Obviously, access to public trans, terrain in your area, etc, play a factor in personal accessibility... I have taken pains to say that EVs won't be right for everyone, but they will serve for most. It only makes sense: In this internet age, most of us in developed areas need to travel less. As we reach that social stage, it's logical that a vehicle with lesser range will still work for those people. And as many people originally chose where to live and work according to where personal and public transportation made convenient, as I did--and as those distances increased with the development of the ICE--I expect people to re-evaluate those choices against the realities of EVs, and their impact on other forms of transportation, and act accordingly. Cities and surrounding areas may see some significant changes, if the "daily range" of personal vehicles is seen to change. People may move closer to city and town centers... local town centers will develop closer to more distant suburbs... public trans routes will shift to better accommodate the changing traffic patterns... the idea and location of the "ideal community" will change. At least, all of these things have happened before. There's little reason to think they won't happen again.

05-09-2010, 08:36 AM	#174
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	trials in the UK have suggested that drivers of electric cars suffer from distance anxiety; especially when the car battery gets to as low as 50% charge.....

05-09-2010, 09:23 AM	#177
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Yes, I guess with an electric car it's not so much the finding a power socket that's an issue, but the time it takes to recharge.

05-09-2010, 09:56 AM	#180
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I know it's not electric, but I'm lusting after one of these:

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