"The book industry is gonna get Napstered..."

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by carld

Sorry, I don't really understand what you're saying. I still don't see what you're calling a "land grab." Copyright holders have a right to own their copyrights, and to be paid for their usage. Now, if you're talking about the changes the government has made to public domain laws, I fully agree on that, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not.

Here is an example. Ernest Hemmingway wrote all of his works under the 1909 copyright act, which granted a copyright for a maximum of 56 years. Under those rules, everything he wrote up to 1953 ought to be in the public domain. Everything everybody in the US wrote should be in the public domain up to 1953. But are they? No Way! Because the copyright agreement has been unilateraly stretched in favor of copyright holders! That's a land grab. Every buck gathered by the owners of those pre-1953 copyrights is a buck wrongfully taken out of the public's pockets. Those works were willingly made under the 1909 laws, nobody was cheated. So why should the heirs and assigns keep getting more and more money, and control access to, these older works? It's not the authors, in most cases, they're dead. And Dead men don't create. No, it's just a land grab for the heirs and assigns, driven by corporations that never die, and who expect their copyrights to have the same benefit....

[carld]

Originally Posted by ficbot

If you want me to be a customer so badly, why do you have to make it so hard?

Apparently you didn't bother to look at his web site. I wouldn't presume to speak for SJ, but I will say that (as far as I know) all of his ebooks are available in multiple formats, including epub, pdb, mobi, lit, rtf and lrf. They are drmfree, and he offers attractively priced bundles of books.

Carl

[carld]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Here is an example. Ernest Hemmingway wrote all of his works under the 1909 copyright act, which granted a copyright for a maximum of 56 years. Under those rules, everything he wrote up to 1953 ought to be in the public domain. Everything everybody in the US wrote should be in the public domain up to 1953. But are they? No Way! Because the copyright agreement has been unilateraly stretched in favor of copyright holders! That's a land grab. Every buck gathered by the owners of those pre-1953 copyrights is a buck wrongfully taken out of the public's pockets. Those works were willingly made under the 1909 laws, nobody was cheated. So why should the heirs and assigns keep getting more and more money, and control access to, these older works? It's not the authors, in most cases, they're dead. And Dead men don't create. No, it's just a land grab for the heirs and assigns, driven by corporations that never die, and who expect their copyrights to have the same benefit....

I don't disagree with that, but you need to put the blame where it belongs. it's not with the authors, it's with the government and the corporations. And we need at least to work to see the Public Domain Enhancement Act passed. It's also not a justification, as some seem to see it, to pirate the work of authors trying to make a living.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by carld

I don't disagree with that, but you need to put the blame where it belongs. it's not with the authors, it's with the government and the corporations. And we need at least to work to see the Public Domain Enhancement Act passed. It's also not a justification, as some seem to see it, to pirate the work of authors trying to make a living.

(Tongue firmly in cheek) Is it Ok to Pirate authors who aren't trying to make a living (because they're dead?)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by ficbot

So, you are asking us 'why should I produce it.' I am going to turn the tables on you and ask 'why should I buy it?' I can explain, if you want to, exactly what steps I must take to get a secure eReader file onto my Sony Reader. It's quite labour intensive, involves three software programs and about 5% of the time, does not produce a readable book anyway. If you want me to be a customer so badly, why do you have to make it so hard?

Well, since I provide multiple non-DRM'd formats of my e-books, I'll save you the trouble of explaining your conversion steps.

I firmly believe in providing value in my e-books. That is why, besides trying to write reasonably-entertaining stories, I proof them (some days better than others), create covers for them, personally prepare them in multiple formats, go through the trouble of customizing the easiest purchasing interface I could, and sell them at a reasonable price, to make sure there are the fewest impediments to buying and enjoying my books.

But even with that effort, I hate to say it, but I feel thoroughly unappreciated for my efforts, but as a writer and a self-publisher, thanks to threads like this. No, I'm not expecting MR readers to start e-mailing to the four corners of the globe, telling everyone they can, "Steve Jordan is a writer we can all appreciate, he does it the way we like it, let's all buy his books and show the world how much we love a great e-book seller!"

But I'd like to at least have the impression that someday my labors to entertain others may produce some fruit, instead of hearing excuse upon excuse used to justify taking my works and not paying for them, and looking at an empty bank account. As it is, I could make more money mowing lawns in my neighborhood than I make from this right now. So my question stands: What's the point?

[ficbot]

"I hate to say it, but I feel thoroughly unappreciated for my efforts"

Steve, writers are no different than anybody else in that. I work for a smaller company and get paid about 10K less than I could be working for a unionized one. But the jobs in my field are tight right now and I am lucky to have what I have.

As to your 'what's the point' question, this goes back to what I said before about the difference between writing as an art and writing as a business. I myself made the decision, in terms of writing as a business, that I was NOT making enough money for it to be my job, and for me, it remains a hobby, and truthfully, I enjoy it more that way. If I do publish a novel, it will probably be as an independent author. I am quite sure I will not make much money at it barring a stroke of luck, but I would rather have complete control and just out it out there for the fun of it, come what will.

If you are looking at this as a 'business' with the goal of earning a living at it, well, a lot of us have said we would, and have, and do pay for what we buy so I'm not sure why you're so angry at us. But you know, there are a lot of things which people enjoy doing which just don't pay enough to live on, and that's just the way it is sometimes. You have to decide, I guess, whether you are in this solely for the bucks or whether you have other motivations. And if you do have other motivations, perhaps there are ways you can supplement the writing with related gigs, be it business/corporate writing, teaching, or the many other ways a lot of non-Stephen King authors do.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

(Tongue firmly in cheek) Is it Ok to Pirate authors who aren't trying to make a living (because they're dead?)

Ehh, no. I do get what you're saying though. But still, even bad authors have rights to their work.

Carl

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by carld

Ehh, no. I do get what you're saying though. But still, even bad authors have rights to their work.

Carl

Watch my lips - I said DEAD authors, not BAD authors....

[carld]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Watch my lips - I said DEAD authors, not BAD authors....

I got that, the point was, they belong in the same group, neither one's making any money.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by carld

I got that, the point was, they belong in the same group, neither one's making any money.

But dead people don't have any rights, except for certain voting rights in certain precincts.....

[carld]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

But dead people don't have any rights, except for certain voting rights in certain precincts.....

True, but modern copyright doesn't vanish at the time of death. I think our current law goes overboard, but I think the publishers, and author's estate, should retain the copyright for a while as an incentive to keep the works available.

Carl

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by carld

True, but modern copyright doesn't vanish at the time of death. I think our current law goes overboard, but I think the publishers, and author's estate, should retain the copyright for a while as an incentive to keep the works available.

Carl

Available?....... You don't think there'd be a sea of people scanning and placing in the public domain more works from pre-1953 than are available commercially today.....

Have you ever looked at Project Gutenberg, (or here for that matter)?

[Jaime_Astorga]

Originally Posted by carld

Writing is work, for which the authors deserve to be paid, unless you want to return to the days when the only things published were royal edicts, religious tracts, and political manifestos.

What about the times, such as in ancient Greece, where important philosophical works and mathematical treatises were written? And both of our examples date to times when few people knew how to read and write! If the abundant fanfic communities of the internet show something, it is that when millions of people have the ability to write, several thousands will do it without the need of monetary compensation. All that is needed is some sort of filter to keep Sturgeon's Law in check.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Available?....... You don't think there'd be a sea of people scanning and placing in the public domain more works from pre-1953 than are available commercially today.....

Have you ever looked at Project Gutenberg, (or here for that matter)?

Agreed completely. It irks me when people think monetary incentives are the only way to get things done; volunteer communities would spring up and rally to the cause as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Available?....... You don't think there'd be a sea of people scanning and placing in the public domain more works from pre-1953 than are available commercially today.....

Have you ever looked at Project Gutenberg, (or here for that matter)?

Of course I have. No need for such a sarcastic over-reaction. I was speaking in terms of why the laws are in place, not how they currently fit in the digital age.

Edited out the "DUH" 'cause that's kind of sarcastic too.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Jaime_Astorga

What about the times, such as in ancient Greece, where important philosophical works and mathematical treatises were written?

And how much do you imagine we've lost over the ages from works that were never brought to print because the writer couldn't make a copper to live off of? I'd guess it's rather a lot.