Library E-Book Lending Poses Rising Problem for Publishing Industry

[meeera]

Originally Posted by leebase

I think of ebooks as needing technology that “people who need the library to have access to reading material” are not likely to have.

It seems that Overdrive is more about letting middle class and above get books on the cheap....and NOT EVEN go to the library.

One word: smartphones.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You make your case there (bold mine). Now please do explain how the new windowing to allow ONE perpetual ebook per library is not exactly the same as banning ebooks from libraries at release. The only nice thing is allowing a reduced price perpetual ebook that never expires with time or number of loans. Libraries could go wide instead of deep, reducing demand of the publishers cash cows by advertising a very wide selection of older titles.

I'm not sure what you mean. I would say that the publishers discovered that windowing eBooks in the bookstores wasn't effective and windowing eBooks in libraries was effective. Bookstores and libraries are fairly different demographics. I also suspect that the underlying assumptions are somewhat different.

For bookstores, the assumptions are 1) eBooks are significantly cheaper than hard back books (true for some books, when Amazon was using best sellers as loss leaders to build the market for eBooks) and 2) there is a degree of piracy going on with eBooks. Amazon stopped doing the loss leader thing and piracy doesn't seem to be a big problem, so neither assumption held true. Basically, releasing eBooks at the same time as the hard back did not hurt the sales figures.

For libraries, the assumption is that people borrow the eBook for free rather than buy the book, and if they have to wait to borrow the book, a significant portion will buy it instead. McMillian seems to think that their data supports this assumption. I guess we will see as McMillian expands the Tor experiment.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I guarantee you that big publisher executives frequent New York Public Library locations, with and without their children and grandchildren. The only difference, with the middle managers, is that they may to go to the Brooklyn Public Library.

Simon & Schuster to Extend Relief Assistance to Libraries, Schools and Booksellers Damaged by Hurricane Irma

Penguin Random House Supports the NYPL by Tripling Donation Amounts

I can believe that publishers do careful market research for product pricing. But for charitable contributions, such as in the past two links, I think the most plausible explanation is that publishing people give to charities they like, and this means libraries.

I also believe that many of people at New York Public Library fund-raising events are from the publishing industry.

Most front line people in the publishing industry (i.e. the people who do the day to day work of working with books and authors, rather than the back office people) are in the industry because they love books. Most don't get paid all that much. I've never really understood the hatred that some here have for publishers.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

For bookstores, the assumptions are 1) eBooks are significantly cheaper than hard back books (true for some books, when Amazon was using best sellers as loss leaders to build the market for eBooks) and 2) there is a degree of piracy going on with eBooks. Amazon stopped doing the loss leader thing and piracy doesn't seem to be a big problem, so neither assumption held true. Basically, releasing eBooks at the same time as the hard back did not hurt the sales figures.

For libraries, the assumption is that people borrow the eBook for free rather than buy the book, and if they have to wait to borrow the book, a significant portion will buy it instead. McMillian seems to think that their data supports this assumption. I guess we will see as McMillian expands the Tor experiment.

I think also more fundamentally eBooks and pBooks are not always direct competitors. For some people they are equivalent, but there are those who want to read a pBook, not an eBook, and vice-versa.
Whereas a library eBook and a purchased eBook are direct competitors. It makes very little difference whether you are downloading it from Overdrive or from Amazon.
So it is logical that eBook vs pBook windowing and eBook vs eBook windowing might have different outcomes.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I think also more fundamentally eBooks and pBooks are not always direct competitors. For some people they are equivalent, but there are those who want to read a pBook, not an eBook, and vice-versa.
Whereas a library eBook and a purchased eBook are direct competitors. It makes very little difference whether you are downloading it from Overdrive or from Amazon.
So it is logical that eBook vs pBook windowing and eBook vs eBook windowing might have different outcomes.

Good point.

[FizzyWater]

I didn't read the original post's link because I don't subscribe to WSJ. So this may duplicate what was there.

I got an email today from our local library, and it says four publishers have recently changed their policies - Blackstone Audio, Hachette, Simon & Schuster and Macmillan (the last one is the one I remember seeing in this thread).

These policy changes will greatly impact our ability to deliver the digital content you want. There will be fewer copies of many titles, so wait times will be longer.

The higher cost to purchase eBooks and eAudiobooks will stretch our budget and impact our ability to provide the level of service you've come to expect.

And they already have a crappy selection, compared to 2 other Cleveland-area libraries I am a member of.

These changes in purchasing policies will make it impossible for us to provide equal access, because customers who can't afford to pay for eBooks and eAudiobooks will have to wait much longer than customers who can pay for them.

I know it's easy to think that those who can't afford eBooks probably can't afford the gadgets to read them with, but I know of programs where every kid in school gets a tablet. And people may receive eBook readers or tablets as gifts from relatives who know they are avid readers.

Our professional associations and library leaders across the country are speaking out in the hopes of reversing or modifying these policy changes so we can continue to effectively serve you.

I'm guessing we're going to have to wait to see if this makes the huge difference the publishers seem to think it will.

I pretty much stopped buying many eBooks after agency pricing went in and effectively doubled what I had previously paid for eBooks. I mostly wait until they go on sale for around $6 or less. Having eBooks in libraries made it easier to stick to my guns. I'll have to see if having to wait longer for any of my favorite authors will change my habits. That's even assuming those books are chosen - since it sounds like the higher costs may lead to fewer books purchased as well as fewer copies of those books.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

I didn't read the original post's link because I don't subscribe to WSJ. So this may duplicate what was there.

I got an email today from our local library, and it says four publishers have recently changed their policies - Blackstone Audio, Hachette, Simon & Schuster and Macmillan (the last one is the one I remember seeing in this thread).



And they already have a crappy selection, compared to 2 other Cleveland-area libraries I am a member of.



I know it's easy to think that those who can't afford eBooks probably can't afford the gadgets to read them with, but I know of programs where every kid in school gets a tablet. And people may receive eBook readers or tablets as gifts from relatives who know they are avid readers.



I'm guessing we're going to have to wait to see if this makes the huge difference the publishers seem to think it will.

I pretty much stopped buying many eBooks after agency pricing went in and effectively doubled what I had previously paid for eBooks. I mostly wait until they go on sale for around $6 or less. Having eBooks in libraries made it easier to stick to my guns. I'll have to see if having to wait longer for any of my favorite authors will change my habits. That's even assuming those books are chosen - since it sounds like the higher costs may lead to fewer books purchased as well as fewer copies of those books.

I strongly sympathize with the libraries, but...

- There's no law that says publishers have to sell to libraries or be nice to them.
- There's no law that days libraries have to buy from all publishers or put up with their every whim.
- Whining about unfair treatment and handwringing has never been a good negotiating tactic.
- There is no shortage of publishers out there and Overdrive has deals to distribute a lot more. Some are even library-friendly. Showing some spine and taking their business elsewhere might be more effective.

Deeds, not words.

$0.02

[darryl]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Most front line people in the publishing industry (i.e. the people who do the day to day work of working with books and authors, rather than the back office people) are in the industry because they love books. Most don't get paid all that much. I've never really understood the hatred that some here have for publishers.

I presume that I am one person referred to by the words "some here". Yes, I do dislike the Big 5 for reasons I have gone into in the past. However, I don't think my dislike quite extends to the level of hatred. I don't, of course, extend my dislike to the many wonderful people who work for publishers, who are often exploited almost as much as many of their authors (and their Australian readers).

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I think also more fundamentally eBooks and pBooks are not always direct competitors. For some people they are equivalent, but there are those who want to read a pBook, not an eBook, and vice-versa.
Whereas a library eBook and a purchased eBook are direct competitors. It makes very little difference whether you are downloading it from Overdrive or from Amazon.
So it is logical that eBook vs pBook windowing and eBook vs eBook windowing might have different outcomes.

This is very much the case. For me a pbook is now a last resort. Sadly, I know a number of older people who would really benefit from using an e-reader, but stick to PBooks or just give up reading.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I strongly sympathize with the libraries, but...

- There's no law that says publishers have to sell to libraries or be nice to them.
- There's no law that days libraries have to buy from all publishers or put up with their every whim.
- Whining about unfair treatment and handwringing has never been a good negotiating tactic.
- There is no shortage of publishers out there and Overdrive has deals to distribute a lot more. Some are even library-friendly. Showing some spine and taking their business elsewhere might be more effective.

Deeds, not words.

$0.02

You are of course correct, except perhaps for your insistence on Deeds. My concern is, as I posted earlier, that this may in fact play into the publishers hands. As I also posted earlier, I'm simply not convinced that Publishers need or want their books in libraries. The primary reason would, I presume, be sales revenue from libraries. I'm not sure just how significant such sales are. This may well differ from publisher to publisher. Whilst there are no doubt some other benefits for publishers in discovery, promotional opportunities and simply good will, these are nebulous things which I have not seen quantified. They may be hugely valuable or so minimal as to not further justify sales to libraries.

It will come down to cold hard dollars. With windowing, if they pick up significantly more sales during the windowing period and libraries still buy the books, they win. If libraries don't then buy the books, they still win if the sales during the windowing period make up for the loss in library sales. If libraries boycott, it is a straight out question of whether increased sales make up for lost library sales. In all scenarios of course publishers do need to factor in the value of the other benefits from library sales.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by darryl

In all scenarios of course publishers do need to factor in the value of the other benefits from library sales.

Exposure at the library is going to swap over to what is talked about and bought. I imagine it works both ways. What people buy is in demand, and the library will buy it too. Other way around, if you look in library, see a book you like, and then see a mile long wait list, you can either wait, or buy it instead. It must be a good book if so many others are willing to wait for it. Remove all naughty publishers from library, replace with alternatives, eventually the whole community will adopt (both patrons and buyers).

[John F]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Exposure at the library is going to swap over to what is talked about and bought. I imagine it works both ways. What people buy is in demand, and the library will buy it too. Other way around, if you look in library, see a book you like, and then see a mile long wait list, you can either wait, or buy it instead. It must be a good book if so many others are willing to wait for it. Remove all naughty publishers from library, replace with alternatives, eventually the whole community will adopt (both patrons and buyers).

With (most?) Overdrive libraries the number of holds allowed is fixed. So the choice becomes, wait, buy, or move on to another book with a shorter waitlist, (or read a classic).

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by darryl

I presume that I am one person referred to by the words "some here". Yes, I do dislike the Big 5 for reasons I have gone into in the past. However, I don't think my dislike quite extends to the level of hatred. I don't, of course, extend my dislike to the many wonderful people who work for publishers, who are often exploited almost as much as many of their authors (and their Australian readers).
...

Actually, you are not one of the people I was referring to. I've never noticed you expressing anything that struck me as hatred. I may disagree with you on certain subjects, but that's fine. For the most part, your reaction seems to me to be a lot like my reaction to cars. There is a price point that I'm not going to go over when I buy a new car. Yea, the more expensive car is likely a "better" car, but I see a car as something that gets me from point A to point B and don't particular care about making a statement. As long as it gets me from point A to point B reliably and mets certainly safety concerns, then I'm good.

Quite a few here seem to approach books the same way. They see no reason to spend more that $X (considerably less than the normal list price) for a book since they can find plenty of books they like in that price range. Seems rational to me. I do think they are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to book buying, even if they do seem to assume that everyone thinks like they do.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Exposure at the library is going to swap over to what is talked about and bought. I imagine it works both ways. What people buy is in demand, and the library will buy it too. Other way around, if you look in library, see a book you like, and then see a mile long wait list, you can either wait, or buy it instead. It must be a good book if so many others are willing to wait for it. Remove all naughty publishers from library, replace with alternatives, eventually the whole community will adopt (both patrons and buyers).

Frankly, it really comes down to what role libraries play. Locally, it seems like a lot of libraries have split their duties quite a bit. The main library downtown appears to have become a combination of a place for people to get out of the weather and a place to access the internet for free. I think they are the main repository of books, but tend to loan those books out to the branches rather than have people come to the main library.

Other branches seem to be focused on what the community around them wants with a lot of focus on kids. That's really the way I remember it when I was a young reader, the library as a combination of research and older novels (with an emphasis on kids books), rather than a place to get the latest/greatest best seller. A lot have extensive children's programs.

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine was involved with a book drive at her local library (it was one of the slightly more rural counties), so I donated a few hundred hard backs that I had the replace with ebooks and were just sitting in a closet. This included mostly well known authors and books, including a complete set of Harry Potter hard backs. They were all sold to a book discounter since the point was to raise money, not buy books. That does tell me that many libraries no longer see acquiring books and making those books available to the public as their primary task.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Quite a few here seem to approach books the same way. They see no reason to spend more that $X (considerably less than the normal list price) for a book since they can find plenty of books they like in that price range. Seems rational to me. I do think they are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to book buying, even if they do seem to assume that everyone thinks like they do.

I think we can all fall into the trap of assuming that everyone feels the way that they do, or at least should feel that way. Politics at the moment offers a particularly extreme example.

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Frankly, it really comes down to what role libraries play. Locally, it seems like a lot of libraries have split their duties quite a bit. The main library downtown appears to have become a combination of a place for people to get out of the weather and a place to access the internet for free. I think they are the main repository of books, but tend to loan those books out to the branches rather than have people come to the main library.

Other branches seem to be focused on what the community around them wants with a lot of focus on kids. That's really the way I remember it when I was a young reader, the library as a combination of research and older novels (with an emphasis on kids books), rather than a place to get the latest/greatest best seller. A lot have extensive children's programs.

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine was involved with a book drive at her local library (it was one of the slightly more rural counties), so I donated a few hundred hard backs that I had the replace with ebooks and were just sitting in a closet. This included mostly well known authors and books, including a complete set of Harry Potter hard backs. They were all sold to a book discounter since the point was to raise money, not buy books. That does tell me that many libraries no longer see acquiring books and making those books available to the public as their primary task.

The changing role of libraries is very interesting. Our local library network offers a lovely central library in a relatively new building, together with quite a few branches. The main branch features a small cafe with comfortable seats and tables nearby. Books, chiefly paper books, remain the main business, though they have offered for some time Audio-books, music CD's, video DVD's and magazines. They have an excellent local history section. They offer extensive online resources, including for e-books Overdrive and Cloud Library. They have a large number of computers available to access the internet, and some branches have computer labs with 3d printers etc. They offer classes in using these computer resources. As well they offer extensive programs and classes on a variety of topics for children and older people. They often have academics from one of the local universities giving talks on various subjects. There are also book clubs and social type clubs. They promote books heavily, with a special selected reads type program and recommended lists for genres. They host workshops for local authors and often have authors visiting for talks etc. Anecdotally this is common amongst libraries today. They have generally acted to integrate themselves more tightly with their communities, and are no longer just about books. They can be described as community hubs with some accuracy. A good strategy for survival.

[DiapDealer]

I'll be honest: I don't think societal literacy in general hinges on a public library's ability to loan out multiple copies of the books on the most recent best-seller's list. Electronic or dead-tree aside, I grew up reading the snot out of everything that my library had to offer. And they never did have new stuff to offer. I'd have to guess and say that the average book on the newly-arrived shelf was about 3-5 years past its publication date.

So while I can sympathize with people who've become used to borrowing new-release ebooks within months of publication (depending on the wait list), I'm having a hard time getting too worked up over it since there's still scads of stuff to read at the library (e & p).

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'll be honest: I don't think societal literacy in general hinges on a public library's ability to loan out multiple copies of the books on the most recent best-seller's list. Electronic or dead-tree aside, I grew up reading the snot out of everything that my library had to offer. And they never did have new stuff to offer. I'd have to guess and say that the average book on the newly-arrived shelf was about 3-5 years past its publication date.

Bingo! We have a winner. This particular hubbub is nothing about reading for the underprivileged in society. This is middle class "give me my books for free" (I know, you paid taxes....ergo you are entitled to all brand new titles....now)