Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm certainly not the best person to say if something is romance or not.

Oh I think had you read I think book 7, you would know what it was.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm certainly not the best person to say if something is romance or not.

Romance is when the hero and the heroine focus on their relationship. It's the main focus of the story.
Take Chloe Neill's Chicago Vampire series which is disguised as Urban Fantasy but is really paranormal romance.

In this series the heroine Merit talks constantly how hot her man is. She is obessed with his physical traits. She also pretty much goes out of her way to notice all hot guys.

Romance focuses on the intimacies of a couple, now a book can have sex in it and not be a romance. Jennifer Estep Elemental series comes to mind. It is marketed as Romance but the first few books really isn't. I DNF the series because it wasn't for me.

Samhain is known for romance and erotica books. They started out with the more spicier romances and erotica but later added more sweet romances then mainstream romance backtitles.

Sent from my XT1528

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

After book 5 on Laurell K Hamilton, I would not classify those as romance. Anita went WILD. And by I think I stopped at 15, there wasn't even much of a plot.

Nope. Not romance.
I always saw the early Anita Blakes as attempts at Urban Fantasy Mystery. All readable, occasionally fun, but never quite hitting the mark on the mystery side. (Unlike the better structured Vicky Nelson Blood Ties by Tanya Huff.)

After the fifth, Hamilton pretty much gave up on trying to build mystery and started to drift ever deeper into erotic territory. I gave up on the series after that but I was dragged to a signing and from what I saw of her private life I could understand where she was coming from. It's proven profitable, anyway.

[BearMountainBooks]

DRIFT???? DRIFT??? That wasn't a DRIFT. That was a dive whole-heartedly, no-holds-barred, let's shred the veneer off this thing and beat it with a two-by-four juuust in case anyone is dumb enough to hold out hope for a storyline.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

DRIFT???? DRIFT??? That wasn't a DRIFT. That was a dive whole-heartedly, no-holds-barred, let's shred the veneer off this thing and beat it with a two-by-four juuust in case anyone is dumb enough to hold out hope for a storyline.

Apache

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

DRIFT???? DRIFT??? That wasn't a DRIFT. That was a dive whole-heartedly, no-holds-barred, let's shred the veneer off this thing and beat it with a two-by-four juuust in case anyone is dumb enough to hold out hope for a storyline.

I've read at some place that storyline is back around thirteenth book

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

I've read at some place that storyline is back around thirteenth book

I read through 15 and no storyline. 15 went totally off the rails. Well there was a story but it got derailed in the now which what is doing what to were. Menage a everyone.
I'm no prude but that wasn't what I was expecting.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I read through 15 and no storyline. 15 went totally off the rails. Well there was a story but it got derailed in the now which what is doing what to were. Menage a everyone.
I'm no prude but that wasn't what I was expecting.

I'm not prude but menage is not my cup of tea, so I stayed clear of them after third. Anyway, I think I heard that, probably I¡m wrong.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

DRIFT???? DRIFT??? That wasn't a DRIFT. That was a dive whole-heartedly, no-holds-barred, let's shred the veneer off this thing and beat it with a two-by-four juuust in case anyone is dumb enough to hold out hope for a storyline.

I try to be polite.
And I wasn't sure it was fair of me to compare her to Tanya Huff just because I discovered them at the same time. Huff is a more versatile writer.

Anyway I did get a look at one of the latter ones, set out west I think, that had a vestigial story. It was a quick read: one (skinny) chapter of plot, skip three (fat) chapters of sex, rinse and repeat. Didn't even have to leave the library.

Again, it sells.
Somebody likes it.

Edit: conversely, there is another long running urban fantasy series that started out with some fairly explicit sex scenes grafted onto a comedy that, yes, drifted away from sex and romance to outright comedic urban fantasy. If she would only rewrite the first volume or two I'd be recommending it all over. As is, I can recommend her latter rom-coms: like the one about the mermaid that's allergic to seafood. (Mary Janice Davison, btw).

There's a *lot* of fun and frothy rom-cons out there.
Hard for the publishers but good for readers of the genre. (My mom.)

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I try to be polite.
And I wasn't sure it was fair of me to compare her to Tanya Huff just because I discovered them at the same time. Huff is a more versatile writer.

Anyway I did get a look at one of the latter ones, set out west I think, that had a vestigial story. It was a quick read: one (skinny) chapter of plot, skip three (fat) chapters of sex, rinse and repeat. Didn't even have to leave the library.

Again, it sells.
Somebody likes it.

Edit: conversely, there is another long running urban fantasy series that started out with some fairly explicit sex scenes grafted onto a comedy that, yes, drifted away from sex and romance to outright comedic urban fantasy. If she would only rewrite the first volume or two I'd be recommending it all over. As is, I can recommend her latter rom-coms: like the one about the mermaid that's allergic to seafood. (Mary Janice Davison, btw).

There's a *lot* of fun and frothy rom-cons out there.
Hard for the publishers but good for readers of the genre. (My mom.)

I'm assuming that her target audience isn't reading those books in the library. At least, I hope not.

[Pajamaman]

As far as I can understand it, the situation is as follows:

For a while over the last five years or so, indie authors and independent publishers were able to sell their books on Amazon and their own sites at a profit. They had visibility on Amazon, and readers bought their books at a profitable price.

Something has happened.

Readers no longer buy from independent sites. They buy from Amazon.

And Amazon is no longer giving as much visibility to indie authors as it was before. It has shifted to giving greater visibility to the Big 5 publications. Amazon did this by changing its algorithms and advertising system. Why did this happen? About two years ago, Amazon came to agreements with the Big 5 publishers. What happened in the relationship between Amazon and the Big 5 that Amazon decided to more aggressively market Big 5 books, and to let indie books sales wither?

There is also the issue that readers are buying less indie books, or are not willing to pay as much. That could be because of Amazon's shift in focus.

There is also Trump. This might have affected people's buying habits.

Really, I don't know. Did I get it wrong? I'd love to be enlightened.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

There is also the issue that readers are buying less indie books, or are not willing to pay as much. That could be because of Amazon's shift in focus.

The problem is quality. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone complain about being misled or scammed by an indie author I have a nice chunk of money. Once that trust is broken a few times you are less inclined to buy from indie authors. Also mainstream books have come down in price or have pretty good sales.

Amazon has very little to do with it other then they are allowing anyone to publish anything.

Sent from my XT1528

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

As far as I can understand it, the situation is as follows:

For a while over the last five years or so, indie authors and independent publishers were able to sell their books on Amazon and their own sites at a profit. They had visibility on Amazon, and readers bought their books at a profitable price.

Something has happened.

Readers no longer buy from independent sites. They buy from Amazon.

And Amazon is no longer giving as much visibility to indie authors as it was before. It has shifted to giving greater visibility to the Big 5 publications. Amazon did this by changing its algorithms and advertising system. Why did this happen? About two years ago, Amazon came to agreements with the Big 5 publishers. What happened in the relationship between Amazon and the Big 5 that Amazon decided to more aggressively market Big 5 books, and to let indie books sales wither?

There is also the issue that readers are buying less indie books, or are not willing to pay as much. That could be because of Amazon's shift in focus.

There is also Trump. This might have affected people's buying habits.

Really, I don't know. Did I get it wrong? I'd love to be enlightened.

The public as a whole has never bought indie books on the scale that they buy the big 5. Voracious readers are the ones that took chances on indies. Some indies still sell very well in their categories. Other indies won't sell anything and some will languish in the middle.
Amazon has also tapped some of the good indies for their own publishing line.
Some indies are becoming hybrids.
Amazon wanted indies for the book count more than anything else.
I haven't kept up in the last few years, but I also think there used to be way more book advertisers.
I just looked at a few categories on Amazon and indies are still in the top hundred sellers.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Blossom

The problem is quality. If I had a dime for everytime I heard someone complain about being misled or scammed by an indie author I have a nice chunk of money. Once that trust is broken a few times you are less inclined to buy from indie authors. Also mainstream books have come down in price or have pretty good sales.

Amazon has very little to do with it other then they are allowing anyone to publish anything.

Sent from my XT1528

If you had a dime for every bad indie book, I've tried to read you wouldn't have to worry about an electric bill or food till around 2020.
Make that several of us wouldn't have to worry.

[Apache]

I do not mind the bad indie books that I have tried to read over the years. It has led me to discover some excellent one also. If it isn't good enough, I can drop it. If it is good enough I can't put it down.
Apache