Self-published books

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Does anyone really care what a bunch of random people on the internet think about a book? As well as fake/paid for reviews there's plenty of revenge reviews too.

A lot of people, actually.
Mostly because it is not supposed to be a bunch of random people on the internet, but rather customers of Amazon who read the book and cared enough either way to submit their opinion. And because it impacts sales.

Of, course, that is just the baseline way it's supposed to work.
Overlaid on that are the promo scams, one-star activists, personal attacks, and what-not. Most of which are so blatant an experienced shopped can spot them a mile away. Unfortunately, few are blatant enough for algorithmic weeding and Amazon can't afford to hire a big enough crew to weed them out "by hand" and keep the system 100% honest.

Where the arguments come from is in how honest is the system overall? 80% 90% 50% or zero. And that, like so many things online is just a matter of opinion.

The system itself "is what it is"; some people have learned how to use it, flawed as it (just as some people know how to pick avocados in-store) and others don't want to learn.

What is interesting is that the problems span all product categories to some extent or another but it is books where you see the bulk of the scams and activist meddling and, contrary to myth, it is more common on tradpub titles (there's more of them) and most common on self-help and non-fiction (more controversial). Plus those problems predate Kindle and predate the mainstreaming of indie titles.

Somebody could write a whole book documenting the history of review-hijacks.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

A lot of people, actually.
Mostly because it is not supposed to be a bunch of random people on the internet, but rather customers of Amazon who read the book and cared enough either way to submit their opinion. And because it impacts sales.

Of, course, that is just the baseline way it's supposed to work.
Overlaid on that are the promo scams, one-star activists, personal attacks, and what-not. Most of which are so blatant an experienced shopped can spot them a mile away. Unfortunately, few are blatant enough for algorithmic weeding and Amazon can't afford to hire a big enough crew to weed them out "by hand" and keep the system 100% honest.

Where the arguments come from is in how honest is the system overall? 80% 90% 50% or zero. And that, like so many things online is just a matter of opinion.

The system itself "is what it is"; some people have learned how to use it, flawed as it (just as some people know how to pick avocados in-store) and others don't want to learn.

What is interesting is that the problems span all product categories to some extent or another but it is books where you see the bulk of the scams and activist meddling and, contrary to myth, it is more common on tradpub titles (there's more of them) and most common on self-help and non-fiction (more controversial). Plus those problems predate Kindle and predate the mainstreaming of indie titles.

Somebody could write a whole book documenting the history of review-hijacks.

That book would be at least 5000 hardback in small print pages.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

So you mean you can tell the faked reviews on trad pubbed books?

I generally don't read Amazon reviews. For book reviews, I tend to read at Goodreads. I have a better chance there of getting real reviews.

[JSWolf]

Don't forget that a lot of self-published eBooks have awful covers. The kind of covers that once you have a look, you won't be looking at the description or ratings because you just want not to be able to see that cover any longer.

[Cinisajoy]

Hey Jon,
Usually the awful covers are matched by the awful writing.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Hey Jon,
Usually the awful covers are matched by the awful writing.

In that case, Amazon should hire me to screen their self-published eBooks. I can take one look at the cover and not allow the eBook to be put up. That would cut down the number of self-published eBooks by at least half.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In that case, Amazon should hire me to screen their self-published eBooks. I can take one look at the cover and not allow the eBook to be put up. That would cut down the number of self-published eBooks by at least half.

I want the job removing the purposely miscategorized ebooks. That would get rid of at least another third.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I want the job removing the purposely miscategorized ebooks. That would get rid of at least another third.

And I'll also remove any books that are part of a series that was originally published outside of Amazon that are now exclusive or only published at Amazon since I find those authors to be slimy.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Hey Jon,
Usually the awful covers are matched by the awful writing.

Your Mileage Will Vary Two of my favorites:

http://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Speed-...d+dial+unicorn

Just a really great fantasy/cozy or maybe urban fantasy -- Super fun read. Terrible cover (both of them. She had an earlier one I didn't like either).

Ah, the other book I read (Demon Hunter and Baby) is no longer available. I know the author stopped writing and there was supposed to be a sequel. Perhaps she pulled it since she is no longer writing. It was a very enjoyable UF (with a bit of an open ending, not a cliff hanger, but room to continue). The cover was terrible, but the book was quite good. The writing was awesome.

There's other examples. Let's see.

Stained Glass Monsters--good fantasy. Cover, meh.

Illegal Magic--I quite enjoyed this story--fun, urban fantasy, likeable, but crazy main. Cover: not so great:

http://www.amazon.com/Illegal-Magic-...6679404&sr=8-2

Quality is random. I've read some REAL STINKERS with beautiful covers.

[JSWolf]

I think we should tell these authors who have books we like that the covers are stinkers and really need replacing with better covers. They lose out as a lot of people won't get past a bad cover.

I know a good cover doesn't mean the book will be good, but a good book with a bad cover will lose sales.

[darryl]

Jon. I actually think you would be happier with a job at one of the Big 5. Then you could happily reject 99% of what was submitted to you for any reason or no reason at all. The only way I can see that you would be accountable at all is if you rejected what later became a bestseller, and even then you would have so much company I doubt there would be any repercussions. What is the downside? Get that resume off! now!

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Your Mileage Will Vary Two of my favorites:

http://www.amazon.com/Unicorn-Speed-...d+dial+unicorn

Just a really great fantasy/cozy or maybe urban fantasy -- Super fun read. Terrible cover (both of them. She had an earlier one I didn't like either).

Ah, the other book I read (Demon Hunter and Baby) is no longer available. I know the author stopped writing and there was supposed to be a sequel. Perhaps she pulled it since she is no longer writing. It was a very enjoyable UF (with a bit of an open ending, not a cliff hanger, but room to continue). The cover was terrible, but the book was quite good. The writing was awesome.

There's other examples. Let's see.

Stained Glass Monsters--good fantasy. Cover, meh.

Illegal Magic--I quite enjoyed this story--fun, urban fantasy, likeable, but crazy main. Cover: not so great:

http://www.amazon.com/Illegal-Magic-...6679404&sr=8-2

Quality is random. I've read some REAL STINKERS with beautiful covers.

Not great covers but at least you can tell what they are supposed to be.

[theducks]

It is quirky.

I will take whimsical or quirky over just plain Garish.

Did you notice I avoided the word Ugly? That is because My idea of Ugly is not quantifiable.

[Catlady]

What I expect is a professional-looking cover. That's still a subjective judgment, but rather less subjective than good/bad or beautiful/ugly.

[mitford13]

So...looks like this is gonna be a thing...

An author posted this text from Amazon, in the Writer's Cafe:

"Our shared goal is to provide the best digital reading experience for customers on Kindle. When customers contact us with quality issues in a book you published, we validate the issues and send them immediately to you to fix.

Starting February 3, 2016 we will begin showing customers a warning message on the Amazon.com Kindle store detail pages of books that contain several validated quality issues. We will remove this message for a book as soon as we receive the fixed file from you and verify the corrections -- typically within 2 business days.

We understand that even with the best quality controls, defects sometimes make it through. That's why we've limited this messaging to books with several issues. Books with more serious quality issues will continue to be suppressed from sale."

Seems an odd way to handle the issue, to me.
"Attention customers: please be aware that some of the items we sell are validated crap. Only fair we should warn you right up front.
Have a nice day!"