Books without swear words - there's an app for that

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

There are kids like that. There are also kids who read indiscriminately and pick up wildly inappropriate material. Or who view reading as a challenge to be conquered and deliberately aim for adult books. It really depends on the kid.

I've known kids who picked up Dan Simmons, Marion Zimmer Bradley, the Pern books, etc, in elementary school, and to this day refuse to consider reading anything else by those authors because the experience was so bad. They simply weren't ready for it.

It's the same as video games and other art - different people are simply different, and need to manage their art experiences appropriately.

Parents should be the ones guiding kids down appropriate avenues of exploration until the kids are old enough to make their own decisions, which varies by content type and by the kid involved.

No one in this thread is trying to stop kids from reading. I'm really not sure where you got that. Different people are expressing varying levels of comfort with certain content, and one group is being insulted because of their preferences.

On a side note, it's interesting that the art form dictates how people react to age guidelines. Everyone's OK with R / 16+ ratings, people have tried to ban violent video games for ages, but as soon as people suggest that swearing in books isn't universally approved cries of censorship ring from every corner.

P.S. Anne MacCaffrey is the worst at misleading marketing. She's got books that look so much like they're aimed at the YA market - dragons/unicorn girl/plucky female half-elf on bright covers - but they're really not and it can be confusing and upsetting. David Drake's covers can also be misleading - his War God's series look like straightforward action adventures, but end up having graphic torture/rape scenes. I really wish there was a screening app that could look for content, that would have saved some people a few nasty surprises.

I suppose I can see SOME Marion Zimmer Bradley as inappropriate for pre-teens, and some tweens. However, the Pern series is pretty damned innocuous, other than the whole "the dragons rule" in terms of sex. And even THAT is pretty much entirely off-screen, throughout. (At least, through, in the order of publication, "All the Weyrs of Pern," IIRC). There's nothing in there that would traumatize a tween/teen, IMHO. And frankly, I think a "kid" (assume 10-12) would skim right past the Queen's mating ritual bit. And certainly, her YA versions--the Harperhall trilogy--are absolutely aimed at the tween market, with NOTHING in them that I could possibly think any normal kid could find upsetting. I'm surprised to hear someone say so.

Hell, there's more violence, I think, in Narnia, than in the Pern books--unless, of course, ALL we're talking about now is SEX?

Hitch

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by meeera

Lastly? Where some parents are trying to censor their young adults' reading for bigoted reasons - refusing, to take one very common example, to let them read young adult books with gay storylines - I can and will say loudly and strongly that those parents are making a bad parenting choice. And I make no apologies for that.

Even if they wanted to do so (they don't), I wouldn't let my children read books intended to glorify homosexuality. So, for believing and teaching my Christian Faith, I am now labeled a "bad parent." Your bigoted opinion is noted ... and rejected.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hell, there's more violence, I think, in Narnia, than in the Pern books--unless, of course, ALL we're talking about now is SEX?

Sex is a good reason to keep KIDS away from certain books. Or don't you believe that? By the way, as a young adult I read the Pern books -- the first four or so anyhow. I quit reading in mid-book because they got predictable and boring.

[eschwartz]

Hmm, I have noticed a recent trend in YA Fiction, to insert one, just one, token gay character. Perhaps I shouldn't be accusing authors of jumping on the politically-correct bandwagon, but I must say, the characters in question don't seem to have any compelling reason to suddenly turn out to be gay.

e.g. Percy Jackson -- Nico di Angelo. That whole scene from beginning to end feels very much shoehorned in, it didn't really do anything constructive.

Which leads me to wonder, what do all the good Christian parents allow into the house, considering this insidious trend?

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Even if they wanted to do so (they don't), I wouldn't let my children read books intended to glorify homosexuality. So, for believing and teaching my Christian Faith, I am now labeled a "bad parent." Your bigoted opinion is noted ... and rejected.

Could you give us an example of a book that intends to glorify homosexuality?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Hmm, I have noticed a recent trend in YA Fiction, to insert one, just one, token gay character. Perhaps I shouldn't be accusing authors of jumping on the politically-correct bandwagon, but I must say, the characters in question don't seem to have any compelling reason to suddenly turn out to be gay.

Why do characters need a "compelling reason" to turn out to be gay? Do characters need a "compelling reason" to be written as straight? (Or Aboriginal, or disabled, or any other minority?) Is there any reason why characters shouldn't more or less reflect the makeup of the population? (In which case, I agree, most books should probably have more than one gay character!)

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Could you give us an example of a book that intends to glorify homosexuality?

(I have a feeling that "glorify", here, equals "accepts as just another way to be rather than as the horrific evil sin it is in my mind".)

edited: and yes, I now realise this isn't in P&R, which I kinda thought it was for some reason. We should move.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by meeera

(I have a feeling that "glorify", here, equals "accepts as just another way to be rather than as the horrific evil sin it is in my mind".)

edited: and yes, I now realise this isn't in P&R, which I kinda thought it was for some reason. We should move.

Ah, yes - I hadn't realised that this isn't in P&R either. Sorry - feel free to ignore me.

[hildea]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Could you give us an example of a book that intends to glorify homosexuality?

Surely that's a reasonable question to ask, even outside of the Politics and religion forum? Any follow up discussions would probably belong there, but just posting an example or two, if rcentros is willing, should hopefully be possible here.

For the record, I can remember a few books I've read that glorifies hetereosexuality (the first book in the Outlander series by Gabaldon springs to mind), but none that glorify homosexuality.

[RobertDDL]

Originally Posted by hildea

For the record, I can remember a few books I've read that glorifies hetereosexuality

The Bible, for instance?

[WT Sharpe]

I see nothing wrong with the app. I wouldn't use it, but since it was only for the benefit of the end user I see nothing wrong. What's so bad about someone filtering out words they prefer not to hear? As for me, I'll take my books full strength and unadulterated, but if other more sensitive types feel the need to censor their own content, well personally, my dear, I don't give a hoot.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

What's so bad about someone filtering out words they prefer not to hear?

Nothing.
So long as they don't have/get to buy special, alterable ebooks from the app's integrated store in order to pull it off.

[hildea]

Originally Posted by RobertDDL

The Bible, for instance?

Funny you should say that :-) There's a discussion in the Politics and religion forum right now about, among other things, what the Bible says and doesn't say about sex.

[hildea]

I think there is one major problem with the Cleanreader app: The website gives misleading info about what it does. It claims to remove "profanity and hurtful racial terms". But according to reviews and tests, it also removes words like "sex", "vagina" and "breasts". Those words aren't profanity. If the app is meant for parents, it should take the parents seriously enough to let them know exactly which words are blocked and which aren't, so the parents can make an informed choice about whether to use it for their children or not.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

There are kids like that. There are also kids who read indiscriminately and pick up wildly inappropriate material. Or who view reading as a challenge to be conquered and deliberately aim for adult books. It really depends on the kid.

I've known kids who picked up Dan Simmons, Marion Zimmer Bradley, the Pern books, etc, in elementary school, and to this day refuse to consider reading anything else by those authors because the experience was so bad. They simply weren't ready for it.

It's as I've been saying, it's more the themes of books that kinds are not yet ready for than some specific words. Parents need to take an active role in what their kids read. They need to help them make choices that are appropriate for them until the kids are able to make these choices on their own. It's not a matter of parents saying to kids "no you cannot", but helping them pick out books that are appropriate and that they might like. When the kids are mature enough, then let them read what they choose. But until that happens, help and guide them.