Latest Authors United letter to Amazon Board

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Ah, but that is different.

Music isn't "culture".

That's the real problem of course. Amazon is a homogeneous entity out to destroy our culture.

No, what Amazon should have done is patent the $9.99 ideal suggested retail price for digital content. Now they could sue Apple for doing the same.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

No, what Amazon should have done is patent the $9.99 ideal suggested retail price for digital content. Now they could sue Apple for doing the same.

A valid, if not entirely related point.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Ah, but that is different.

Music isn't "culture".

That's the real problem of course. Amazon is a homogeneous entity out to destroy our culture.

It is different, we are talking about the beat music subscription service which has a very small percentage of the subscription market. Spotify has some 10 million paying subscribers, beats only a few hundred thousand. But hey, let's not stop the narrative with a few inconvenient facts.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Neither looks at it from the customer's point of view, Amazon's protestations to the contrary.

Really? I'm pretty sure that most customers favor the Amazon line, that lower book prices are good for the consumer. Whether that correlates with enough higher volumes to produce the same revenues for the publisher/author is debatable. I suspect that most of Hatchette's revenues come from people who buy fewer than a dozen books a year, in which case the price/demand curve may well be inelastic, as well as their choice of authors/titles.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

Really? I'm pretty sure that most customers favor the Amazon line, that lower book prices are good for the consumer. Whether that correlates with enough higher volumes to produce the same revenues for the publisher/author is debatable. I suspect that most of Hatchette's revenues come from people who buy fewer than a dozen books a year, in which case the price/demand curve may well be inelastic, as well as their choice of authors/titles.

Really? So you believe that most customers would rather pay less money for indie authors than the normal price for name authors? Hum, I'm pretty sure you are dead wrong there. I guess we shall see. Regardless, any benefit to the consumer is purely accidental when it comes to Amazon's attempt to strong arm the publishers into paying for Amazon selling ebooks at below than cost to get market share.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It is different, we are talking about the beat music subscription service which has a very small percentage of the subscription market. Spotify has some 10 million paying subscribers, beats only a few hundred thousand. But hey, let's not stop the narrative with a few inconvenient facts.

Like the inconvenient fact that they are doing the exact same thing? And that their percentage of the market doesn't magically make what they are doing any more or less bullying?

I am pretty sure the creators of any particular work, be it music or books or what have you, could use every penny they can get -- unless you are one of the really big names, you are not making an amazing living.

So what exactly is the difference, and why does any entity get a free pass to do something that is, according to you, abusive bullying, just because they need to compete with other services?

(Personally, I don't think either Apple or Amazon is doing anything wrong. But I think Apple should be taken to task anyway, on grounds of hypocrisy.)

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Really? So you believe that most customers would rather pay less money for indie authors than the normal price for name authors? Hum, I'm pretty sure you are dead wrong there. I guess we shall see.

I am pretty sure you are the only person who thinks bgalbrecht was talking about indie books...
I am pretty sure every customer in existence would rather pay less for name authors than pay "normal" price (really? what is "normal"? that is a thinly disguised attempt to insert your bias against reasonable prices). Sorry, but I'm pretty sure absolutely one hundred percent dead positive you are dead wrong there.

Regardless, any benefit to the consumer is purely accidental when it comes to Amazon's attempt to strong arm the publishers into paying for Amazon selling ebooks at below than cost to get market share.

What is accidental about Amazon doing something because they said that that is what they are doing, while fitting in with their general theme -- going back to their first days in business -- of being "for the consumer"?

Also, why are you lying about "below cost"? Do you really think it costs more than $9.99 to produce a copy of an ebook? (I'll give you a hint. It costs maybe a penny per thousand books.)

[John F]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

... Regardless, any benefit to the consumer is purely accidental when it comes to Amazon's attempt to strong arm the publishers into paying for Amazon selling ebooks at below than cost to get market share.

The He Man Amazon Haters Club is splintering. The usual party message is "Amazon is evil, they are lowering prices to temporarily benefit the consumer and eliminate competition and will than become a monopoly and raise prices."

[dickloraine]

But isn't amazon also bullying them by not discounting books? I'm just to confused by all this statements...

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by John F

The He Man Amazon Haters Club is splintering. The usual party message is "Amazon is evil, they are lowering prices to temporarily benefit the consumer and eliminate competition and will than become a monopoly and raise prices."

That's easily explained: There is no such party.

I've never met, or privately corresponded, with pwalker8. Many months ago I put a post on Mike Shatzkin's blog, and he replied to it there -- which was cool -- but that's where the conspiracy began and ended.

Originally Posted by dickloraine

I'm just to confused by all this statements...

Me too, although the statements that confuse me may be different ones.

Despite have missed the signup for his party membership card, I thought this Shatzkin post was on good take on what's most confusing:

http://www.idealog.com/blog/motivati...tariat-figure/

The motivation of the authors who spend a great deal of time and energy bashing big publishers has puzzled me before. Because “price-shoppers” are a core audience for indie ebooks, indies actually got a shot in the arm when the publishers and Apple put in agency pricing, which in its original form prohibited even the retailer from taking a loss to bring branded ebook prices down. . . .

Perhaps the “explanation” that the published authors defending Hachette pursue their selfish interests but that the indie authors who bash Hachette and the others do it out of public-spiritedness, even if their own revenue suffers, does it for you even though it doesn’t for me.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

That's easily explained: There is no such party.

I've never met, or privately corresponded, with pwalker8. Many months ago I put a post on Mike Shatzkin's blog, and he replied to it there -- which was cool -- but that's where the conspiracy began and ended.



Me too, although the statements that confuse me may be different ones.

Despite have missed the signup for his party membership card, I thought this Shatzkin post was on good take on what's most confusing:

http://www.idealog.com/blog/motivati...tariat-figure/

You mean that Mike Shatzkin replied to it? I'm pretty sure I didn't, unless it was my evil twin brother.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

But isn't amazon also bullying them by not discounting books? I'm just to confused by all this statements...

Yes, exactly what the publishers wanted Amazon to do. Not discount books.

[fjtorres]

For those, like Shatzkin, confused by the notion of altruism, some help from:

Nate the great and friends:http://the-digital-reader.com/2014/1.../#.VDHbq-rD_MI

David Gaughran: davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/building-a-better-industry/

Psychology Today and friends: http://www.thepassivevoice.com/10/20...y-of-altruism/

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

Yes, exactly what the publishers wanted Amazon to do. Not discount books.

Oh, but they do want them to discount paper books.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Oh, but they do want them to discount paper books.

As long as it's at Amazon's expense.
Don't forget that bone of contention.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

As long as it's at Amazon's expense.
Don't forget that bone of contention.

Oh yes of course at their expense. IIRC it was also one of the issues with the S&S/B&N fight a while back.