Very disappointed with the way the tech is developing.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by harryE123

Graham, I feel this is just beating about the bush by the op, and I don't take their words at face value: if the Zune marketplace is so good, how would he know it, since it's not available in his/her country so he can evaluate how good it is? The op is from the U.K. how successful is a company like MS in their implementation and strategy if they can't even manage to open a store in the UK by 2011 while their competitor has done so years ago? It's not like the UK is some sub saharan 1 million people african state.

So this all falls back on to my arguments. If he is forced to use itunes in the UK because MS doesn't have an equivalent, then who is forcing him? Apple? Of course not. MS? For sure, since they don't have a marketplace there yet they have all the hardware/software that would warrant one. That's why I said that implicitly MS was forcing him to use itunes. Again with the tired car analogy, if I buy a mercedes yet they don't have a service/accessories shop in my country, and I am forced to buying from the bmw one, then who is forcing me to do so? Of course non other than Mercedes.

djgreedo is from Australia not the UK. It's not that he can't access and review the Zune marketplace, it's that it doesn't provide a payment gateway that he can use to buy tracks in Australia.

While you can argue that MS is 'forcing' him to use iTunes in this respect, it's not the quality of the software that is in question, which is the point that was under discussion.

By the same argument you could say that Amazon, Napster, Spotify and countless others were 'forcing' him to use iTunes as they don't have a gateway in Australia.

Graham

[harryE123]

Australia is still one of the biggest western markets, ms should have got their act together and made their "marketplace" (or marketplac (sic) as it was spelled on the ads for the zune hd...) available. Is there any excuse for not doing so after tens of years and in 2011, while their arch competitor has?

No software is of good quality if you can't actually use it, is it?

Yes of course, these others are forcing him to use itunes too since they don't have an outlet in Australia. Aren't they? But there is an important difference. The op doesn't praise the rest, and say oh how good products they make, like he did with ms, which asks for the question that I posed. If ms make such great products for you to use and be happy with them why haven't they offered you a damn store to buy from and instead they are "forcing" you to use the "terrible" itunes? We are nearing la la land when we start saying that when the tec giant screws up and doesn't give us an option to buy from them that it's their competitors fault that they actually do have at least something available to buy from. Instead of saying thank goodness for apple that at least I can buy such a broad range of content from someone, when the manufacturer of my device, ms, have royally screwed me in terms of options of actually loading some content in my device.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by harryE123

Australia is still one of the biggest western markets, ms should have got their act together and made their "marketplace" (or marketplac (sic) as it was spelled on the ads for the zune hd...) available. Is there any excuse for not doing so after tens of years and in 2011, while their arch competitor has?

No software is of good quality if you can't actually use it, is it?

Yes of course, these others are forcing him to use itunes too since they don't have an outlet in Australia. Aren't they? But there is an important difference. The op doesn't praise the rest, and say oh how good products they make, like he did with ms, which asks for the question that I posed. If ms make such great products for you to use and be happy with them why haven't they offered you a damn store to buy from and instead they are "forcing" you to use the "terrible" itunes? We are nearing la la land when we start saying that when the tec giant screws up and doesn't give us an option to buy from them that it's their competitors fault that they actually do have at least something available to buy from. Instead of saying thank goodness for apple that at least I can buy such a broad range of content from someone, when the manufacturer of my device, ms, have royally screwed me in terms of options of actually loading some content in my device.

Well, you go that way, apple is forcing me to to buy from other, because of the lack of a linux version for iTunes.
But then, i don't care. Amazon MP3 is so much better. Just a simple plugin, no laggy heavy software.
I live very well without apple, tanks you very much.

[Selcien]

In regards to the original topic.

For my own personal needs I'd say that I'm on the verge of getting the perfect e-reader, won't know for sure until I get it, but the PRS-350 looks to be it.

Now, if I was looking for a large screen device like you are I'd be inclined to agree with you. I stopped paying attention to e-readers for three months and all of a sudden the Que is dead, and so is the Skiff, rather startling.

I don't think it marks the end, rather, I think that at this point a large screen e-reader will not only have to be as readable as e-ink, but will have to be capable of doing the kinds of things that an LCD can do. Mirasol might be that solution or it might not, but surely there will be some kind of tech that would effectively turn an iPad like device into a fantastic reader, it's just not going to happen as soon as you'd like.

Originally Posted by harryE123

Sorry Rob, but what innovations? One can hardly call innovative finally putting in a touchscreen that doesn't ruin a product with glare, when almost all smartphones have had better capacitance touch screens since a few years. Just because they were (sorry but I got to say this) idiots enough to ruin their products' single selling point -e-ink's readability- with a crap touch screen doesn't mean they are innovators for coming to their senses now and finally putting one in (and we are going to see how well it works because I 've been told it's ir...) that doesn't impede reading, they way everyone and their brother have done in the smart phone arena.

That's precisely the crux of the problem with e-ink manufacturers, they are so behind incorporating even the simplest tecs that other gadgets have long ago had.

What makes something innovative is when it does something that other products do not do. I challenge you to find a device that is every bit as readable as the new Pearl e-ink screens are (in the sun as well as in the shade) that uses a touch technology that's as good as what Sony will be using (doesn't negatively affect readability and doesn't require the use of a special stylus).

Maybe there's an e-reader I've overlooked but I seriously doubt it.

[Freeshadow]

@Lady Fitzgerald
Dear Jeannie, altough I admit to be paranoic, at least to a certain level, privacy aspects were - as seen from my posting just a side aspect mentioned.

what actually drove me nuts was the fact that there are ancient (measured to development speed in IT) technological concepts taken, wrapped in new buzzwords and resold, with people actually swallowing it.

cloud storage, ahm fileservers being actually younger than the so hyped cloud computing... as I said, terminals hooked to a mainframe - how old is that?
The last guy I talked to, who actually maintained such a setup, worked as a sysadmin, in the decade i was born.

[harryE123]

@Selcien.
I really like and believe in e-ink technology, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I also agree it is innovative by virtue of it being there. But my original point is that it hasn't evolved as much as it should have to cater for our needs. To make an analogy, it's the pc circa the 1980, when we were expecting it by now to have been the mac. I am sure sooner than later these devices will finally cater for most of our needs in a much better, fuller, way. But due to a lot of reasons mentioned by others here too, the wait has been disappointingly long for some of us.

@Freeshadow
I too am very bothered with moronic buzzwords on the net that put new clothes on an old concept, such as "web 2.0" and all that similar crap. But in terms of cloud computing I do think it's a paradigm shift and whilst the parts that make it up may be old the application (or better the potential application) adds up to something bigger that does warrant a new term. But I am not averse either to someone dismissing this term all together, the actual functionality is what matters and I think in many aspects it is important.

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Well, you go that way, apple is forcing me to to buy from other, because of the lack of a linux version for iTunes.
But then, i don't care. Amazon MP3 is so much better. Just a simple plugin, no laggy heavy software.
I live very well without apple, tanks you very much.

It's your choice to use linux, apple isn't supposed to support you in any os you choose. I can't put solaris on my machine and whine that apple isn't letting me access their store, as I can't park in Liverpool and whine how I can't access John Lewis on Oxford Street in London.

I am glad to hear you find amazon so much better. Choice makes everyone happy.

[volwrath]

DELETED

[HedgeMage]

Originally Posted by harryE123

...I am very disappointed at the development of the tec. Compromises, a still not close to paper image quality, drm everywhere, standards and formats havoc and vapourware galore, small screens, crap interfaces, laggy software...

... and amidst all this vapourware, still after all that time no decent 9.7" or larger reader: A couple of years ago there was this bob guy here shilling the aztac for months only to (supposedly) let us know that they had run into technical issues with the 9.7" (funny thing is a lot of people here bought that crap and even called me out for calling it like it is), then the plastic logic vapourware, then irex going bust. ...

Perhaps this has already been said, but I didn't see it, so...

What are you doing about it?

Ereaders are a nascent technology, both in terms of hardware and software. Like the smart phone, the ereader suffers from the added problem that instead of being a new software technology run on mature hardware, or a new hardware technology powered by mature software, both the hardware and software are experiencing their early growing pains together. Add to that content and service providers who are trying their best to create vendor lock-in, and you have a real mess.

It isn't, however, an unprecedented mess. The browser wars (you may not have seen the hardware component of this mess, it was on the server side, but it was there), the early days of the digital audio market, the smartphone wars, and many other examples exist. Thanks to history, the way out of this mess is clear:

1. Commoditize the software.Common, open software increases choice. This is why droid is kicking iPhone's butt. Commodity software and unregulated innovation lead to more consumer choice. The best way to get this to come about is by investing our resources (time, money, whatever you have to give) in an open source eReader platform like OpenInkPot. When it becomes good enough, it will be picked up by hardware manufacturers as a way to slash their development costs the same way smartphone manufacturers picked up Android.
2. Increase compatibility.One of the natural consequences of commoditizing the software is that compatibility between different hardware and service providers is increased. This means you can choose the device you want, and trust that content from whatever provider you favor will work on it. No more vendor lock-in.
3. Educate the consumer base.In the browser wars (which had little to do with browsers: it was really about who would control the web server market) and the advent of digital audio sales, consumer education was a *huge* factor. People believed that their MP3s compatibility problems were technical until the geeks got involved and made the issue of DRM mainstream. There was a time when nobody outside a few players believed that web standards could be a good thing. We have to become open standards evangelists to counter the well-funded marketing campaigns of those controlling the industry. Once people have the chance to choose, helping them cut through the marketing BS creates a market where providers really have to compete on price and quality.

OpenInkPot already looks pretty awesome (I haven't gotten my hands on an eReader device to try it with yet) but it has a long way to go, too. It needs more hands on deck. More people using it and reporting bugs, more developers working on making the software better, more volunteers doing bug triage and helping new users out, more documentation, more developer access to hardware (donations help big-time here), and so on. There's a critical mass of manpower that a project needs to achieve the kind of growth and maturity you seem to want -- you have the ability to make it happen.

I'm at least as disgusted with the current state of eReaders as you are. Too many formats, software that just isn't "there" yet, vendor lock-in, DRM, hardware nightmares, and ridiculous hardware and content provider posturing have made for a poor experience. Ereaders and ebooks are a growing market anyway because they will change the way we preserve and share information.

Let's do something about it. You don't have to be a coder to do it; I already listed many other ways to help.

[Freeshadow]

gimme OI for the 5" and I'm the 1st to try

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Color me stupid, but just what is Open Inkpot?

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Color me stupid, but just what is Open Inkpot?

open source firmware for the v3 hanlin devices

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=169

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

open source firmware for the v3 hanlin devices

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=169

Thank you.

[MrPLD]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Well, you go that way, apple is forcing me to to buy from other, because of the lack of a linux version for iTunes.

Slightly off topic - but this sort of thing is really getting up my nose lately - the lack of Linux clients. Recently I went to purchase some shows from the Australian ABC web site, not only did they want me to download a 'download helper' (windows) but they also then wanted me to install Microsoft Silverlight

I did send off a rather stern letter of disappointment to the ABC, considering that it's our tax-payer dollars that pays for the various shows I find it incredulous that we're being locked out of obtaining the shows via download despite paying for them twice.

</endrant ... for now>

[HedgeMage]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

open source firmware for the v3 hanlin devices

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=169

It's not just for those devices...it can be ported to most reader hardware.

[Gwen Morse]

Originally Posted by harryE123

But the fact that after so long we still can't get a meagre 9.7 screen one that isn't tied to amazon to read an epub on that is a failure of the technology evolving to "focusing on the activity of reading and the people themselves.", not some wet fantasy a techie like myself might have of what they'd want a device to do.

So, rather than being upset that tech ins't advancing, you're actually upset that Amazon is the company primarily presenting what advances there are.

The base model of the Kindle (not the DX) has consistently gotten smaller (with the same sized screen), thinner, lighter, improved contrast, reduced the "flash" from screen resets, increased storage capacity, and come down in price. World-wide 3G has been added. Wifi has been added.

Some steps seemed a bit like going backwards (increased storage capacity at the cost of a fixed storage card). Some people like the new d-Pad instead of the nav stick, others don't.

Overall, the tech behind the Kindle is improving.

As far as not reading epub, that's Amazon's choice. I personally don't like it. But, for $140 I can lump it. I'm savvy enough to get around it.

I think we're pretty lucky that Jeff Bezos decided he wanted to create an ebook reader for the masses. I remember when it was still all project-hype and all the pundits were claiming he was crazy because "no one" wants to read books on an ereader.

I've read ebooks since the early Palm days and I can tell you that my Kindle is several superleaps in quality above that.

Now that Amazon (as well as Sony and B&N) have combined their sales to make ebooks something appealing to the mainstream reading community, the tech will continue to improve for other niche readers as well.

The innovation will come from the niche products. I'd keep an eye on Android tablets in the near future. Google is built on huge piles of cash that they don't want to pay out in dividends, and their corporate culture pretty much demands innovation.

The hardware manufacturers will be able to continue to improve the hardware tech with the funding they get from successful sales of existing readers. The Android OS is embracing tablets and software innovation will be funded by Google's bottomless coffers.

We the readers will be able to enjoy the fruits of both groups working together.