Is piracy likely to harm ebook sales?

[JaneFancher]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Well I can't afford to outfit a whole data navy being just a person and not a state collecting taxes but there is a precedent for commissioning armed merchant vessels to act on your behalf. I suppose I'll need an Admiralty court to adjudicate prize claims.

Anyway Ghosthawk told me he framed his letter of marque. Think Lynn Abby would want one? I'd trust her with a commission just because I liked her Orion's Children books even if I thought Eleanore came off kinna homophobic...

Heh heh...sure! Just spell her name right: Abbey. I can assure you, however Eleanore came off, Lynn is definitely not.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It would probably work better with a series of books, where you give the first one away for free and then people can buy the others if they want. Rather than hobble the free copy, another way to do it would be to insert advertising/ "buy here" nags every few pages.

Yeah, not sure this would've been a good business model for the likes of J. D. Salinger or John Kennedy Toole.

Jane Fancher you could also spam the 'darknet' with flawed copies of your work. So that anyone searching for a free download instead of just paying for it at your site would likely just find that flawed copy. Then again that just might provoke the sort of response apparently given to Harlan Ellison.

Speaking of which … I've never met the man or seen him in person and all the talk here makes me regret that. I do recall that when I was young, must have been about 1968 – 1969, I read a collection of SF stories that included his story Shattered Like a Glass Goblin. In it a female character asks a male character: “You want to fuck?” At 15 years old I was shocked that a SF author could include such dialogue in a book. No other SF author that I was aware of was doing such.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Jane Fancher you could also spam the 'darknet' with flawed copies of your work. So that anyone searching for a free download instead of just paying for it at your site would likely just find that flawed copy. Then again that just might provoke the sort of response apparently given to Harlan Ellison.

It would depend what the "flaw" was. Something minor and most people would just ignore it and consider it part of the price for getting it for free. Something major and it would put off legitimate try-before-you-buyers and defeat the whole point of the exercise. I still think "buy me" nags every few pages would get the best results. Sure someone would strip them out, but most of the up and downloaders of ebooks never read them so there would still be more copies of the hobbled version floating around than the "fixed" version.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by markbot

This type of reasoning is why many people believe democracy is a bad idea.

Mr ploppy's reasoning was capitalist... not democratic. We should try to avoid confusing the issue with inaccurate labels suggesting connections that aren't there. (After all, it's not as if only democracies try to make money.)

[JaneFancher]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Jane Fancher you could also spam the 'darknet' with flawed copies of your work. So that anyone searching for a free download instead of just paying for it at your site would likely just find that flawed copy. Then again that just might provoke the sort of response apparently given to Harlan Ellison.

Speaking of which … I've never met the man or seen him in person and all the talk here makes me regret that. I do recall that when I was young, must have been about 1968 – 1969, I read a collection of SF stories that included his story Shattered Like a Glass Goblin. In it a female character asks a male character: “You want to fuck?” At 15 years old I was shocked that a SF author could include such dialogue in a book. No other SF author that I was aware of was doing such.

Heh heh...don't know about spamming. But being a pirate of my own work. That's just so bent...

If you ever get the chance, do meet Harlan. He's brutally honest. (I guess writer's workshops with him are/were something else!) Stands up for his work's integrity and his creative rights like no other author I've ever met, and the three of us are pretty tough, at least where it comes to messing with our work. Most of us don't have the money, time, or energy to take on the Hollywood Big Guns when they rip us off...and probably most authors have been by now. I know I was. Blatantly. Someone like Harlan reminds Hollywood that they aren't completely invulnerable.

Love him or hate him, he makes people think, and that, IMO, is a very good thing.

Oh...yeah...Harlan was definitely one of the first, if not the first, to use any sort of "vulgar" language in SF/F prose. He's also the author of the City on the Edge of Forever...I think that's the title...the first of the time travel Star Trek episodes that ends with Kirk saying "Let's get the hell out of here." Harlan fought really hard for that one. Was ultimately furious with how they hacked his script (I've read the original and it was greatly changed, but the final version was still pretty outstanding) but that line got through. It might have been a first for network TV.

Even when I began submitting in the late 80's some publishers still wouldn't let you use profanity, esp the F word. It's one reason I ended up at Warner rather than DAW because not using it in the 'NetWalkers books would be...I dunno, disingenuous? I guess that covers it.

[Highroller]

Originally Posted by JaneFancher

Heh heh...don't know about spamming. But being a pirate of my own work. That's just so bent...

Yep, I did a quick check, All I found of your work up for dl was the Rings trilogy and Upstart and a short story.

I don't think I have EVER read any of your books and I have a pretty substantial paper library. Some 3500 books. 98% of which is paperback and bought 2nd hand. So either your books when bought are held onto or have poor distributation in first place at least in my area.

I commend you for making an effort to make your older books available as e-books at a reasonable rate. Most of the publishers could learn a lot from you. I always thought they were idiots to not sell older books as e-books cheaply. I only recently found out the publishers don't have the digital rights to most of those books, in which case I owe them a small apology. But more recent stuff that has been taken out of print to avoid the warehouse tax you mentioned would be great prospects for lesser priced e-book releases.

I would venture to say they already have most of the books from last decade or 2 in electronic form. All that is required at that point is some formatting as I see it assuming they have the digital rights. But I am just a reader, being neither an author nor a publisher, I certainly don't have all the answers. But I know charging as much or more for the ebook as a paper copy is overcharging.

[JaneFancher]

Originally Posted by Highroller

Yep, I did a quick check, All I found of your work up for dl was the Rings trilogy and Upstart and a short story.

(Since this is coming right after your post, I figured this was enough for a referent. )

I hear this a lot. Warner, my first publisher, was trying to kill the Questar imprint in the year my first book came out. I'd have gotten better distribution if I'd bought a truckload and traveled the country tossing them out the window! Most writers who came out from Questar in the early 90's have a similar story.

I don't have that many out...each of my books is at least two normal sized ones. they run the better part of 200,000 words because I really like complex plots with complex characters. Each book takes a couple of years to write. And my second publisher kept taking books, claiming they were going to publish...only to tell me a year ago that it had been too long since the last books in the series, and sorry, but thanks but no thanks. That's when I decided to go the ebook route, not being particularly inclined to write the next Urban Fantasy.

My whole tale of woe is various places on my website and blog, but the important thing is, we do have options now. It's just hard for most of us older writers to find the energy to start all over again. At least we have some established readership to cheer us on.

You'd be amazed how slow most publishers were to start accepting electronic files. I don't know how easily the "typeset" versions will translate, tho it'd be way easier than OCRing. I think it was the late 90's before they finally took one of mine from file rather than retyping the whole thing. It's crazy how slow to embrace electronic technology most publishers were.

As for e-rights...very few publishers actually specifically licensed them, tho DAW had an interesting clause for "computer versions" even back in the 80s (that's thinking ahead). But as I understand it, many publishers are fighting authors now claiming the license implicitly extends to e-rights. This is making it that much harder for writers to commit to doing it themselves.

I was lucky. All my books are mine, e-speaking free and clear. My main series, the hard SF 'Netwalkers books, are completely mine now. Certainly the six new ones I have waiting for covers and hope to have out this year are!

But for most authors, it's really hard to know just which way to jump. I think a lot are hoping the publishers will get their act together and get the backlist available. I can't blame them...it's a heck of a lot of work.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by JaneFancher

You'd be amazed how slow most publishers were to start accepting electronic files.

Around here? No, we wouldn't. Disgusted, yes...

[BooksForABuck]

The back list is a powerful asset and it's also something that the eBook world makes possible to fully use. That said, I don't understand why it should be offered at super-low prices.

Readers have a limited number of hours per day to read. Which means they can justify buying only a limited number of books. If they pirate a book and read it, that means they have just spent some number of reading hours on a pirated book and have no need to purchase a book to fill those hours. Sure, if it were a matter of bringing in a new reader, it might be worth it. And it might be worth it for a particular author who's been pirated to attract a new reader for the rest of his back-list. But for the industry as a whole, there are only so many hours in the day, so many books that can be read. Face it, books are cheap entertainment even at list price. Free books can work as promotion, to attract new readers to an author, to introduce new formats, that kind of thing, but ultimately we need readers to pay if we want to keep authors and publishers in business.

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BoksForABuck.com

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

The back list is a powerful asset and it's also something that the eBook world makes possible to fully use. That said, I don't understand why it should be offered at super-low prices.

Readers have a limited number of hours per day to read. Which means they can justify buying only a limited number of books. If they pirate a book and read it, that means they have just spent some number of reading hours on a pirated book and have no need to purchase a book to fill those hours. Sure, if it were a matter of bringing in a new reader, it might be worth it. And it might be worth it for a particular author who's been pirated to attract a new reader for the rest of his back-list. But for the industry as a whole, there are only so many hours in the day, so many books that can be read. Face it, books are cheap entertainment even at list price. Free books can work as promotion, to attract new readers to an author, to introduce new formats, that kind of thing, but ultimately we need readers to pay if we want to keep authors and publishers in business.

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BoksForABuck.com

Life + 50? Life + 70? Life + forever? They help keep publishers in business, but not authors. Once you're dead, you're no longer in business....

I keep thinking - Thomas Jefferson freed his slaves upon his death. Why not authors and their books...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

The back list is a powerful asset and it's also something that the eBook world makes possible to fully use. That said, I don't understand why it should be offered at super-low prices.

I can understand paying more of a premium for brand new material when it comes out, then later a reduction in price to equal most "fairly recent" (1-5 year old) material. I wouldn't have a problem paying for backlist at a significant discount of the cost of "fairly recent" books... but it wouldn't have to be "super-low." Say, 33-50% of the cost of 1-5-year old books, and possibly variable upon the popularity of the book. I agree, I see no reason to essentially "give away" backlist, just because they're old.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

The back list is a powerful asset and it's also something that the eBook world makes possible to fully use. That said, I don't understand why it should be offered at super-low prices.

Reason 1: many people buying from the backlist have already read the book in another format, and there's a limit to how much they'll spend for repeat entertainment. They may want to share the book with a friend--but for that, you run into the wall of nontransferability; they have to convince the friend that she should pay full price for a book that, obviously, did not catch her attention when it was on the charts.

Reason 2: with the removal of several of the costs & risks involved in a first print run (editing the manuscript, promoting the book, finding a readership for this author/series), the books can be offered at a low price, low profit per sale, and long-term volume of sales can make them worth the hassle of converting & proofreading.

Obviously, publishers don't have infinite time & resources to convert their entire backlists. But publishers *should* be converting the most-wanted sections of it (whatever that is)--and should be advertising how they'll be doing so, to drive up sales. Publishers should be telling the public, "we'll convert 3 books/month from our 1985-1990 publications in [X] line," or "we're working to bring you the complete series of ____."

[DawnFalcon]

Nuts, sorry. The back catalogue is the single key to making ebooks work. They should be engaged in a crash project - with temp staff if need be - to bring every single last work they have rights on into ebook format.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Nuts, sorry. The back catalogue is the single key to making ebooks work. They should be engaged in a crash project - with temp staff if need be - to bring every single last work they have rights on into ebook format.

But publishers aren't in business to make ebooks work. They're in business to make money. Spending lots of money now on temp workers to convert a massive back catalogue is a good route to bankruptcy.

Not that back catalogue isn't important! But I think that they can't afford a crash program.

[DawnFalcon]

You're drastically over-stating the costs involved. Hiring freelance editors to convert novels is not that expensive, especially when you're doing a few thousand books. It might cost, conceivably, as much as a single marketing campaign for a bestseller, and will have a much greater long-term effect on the bottom line.