Amazon says 'will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms' - Page 11

Joebill · 02-01-2010, 07:11 PM

I think $10 on an ebook is over-priced. Ebooks cut out the printing presses, typesetters, shipping, brick book stores, etc.

I certainly wont buy ebooks that cost over $10. Raising the price is unjustified as far as I am concerned.

TallMomof2 · 02-01-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

"or why dynamic pricing won't work -- especially since it seems to work reasonably well in other content industries (e.g. video games)"

Where do video games use dynamic pricing?

Console games usually are priced the highest at release and tend to decrease over time. I have a 16yo son who always wants to buy a game the day it comes out and pays $60. When he waits 3 or 4 months, the game is usually priced under $45 - $50. Wait 6 months and the price can drop to well under $30. Of course this is variable depending on the popularity of the game and how fast sales drop off.

DawnFalcon · 02-01-2010, 07:17 PM

True, equally that's retailer and not producer-driven (And has to do with how the price and percentages are assigned in games, which are not overly favourable to wholesalers).

It's notable that online services like Steam *don't* do this, though. While they have sales, otherwise prices don't change (oh, some older games are *introduced* at "classic" prices, but...)

guyanonymous · 02-01-2010, 07:24 PM

Steam does it - look at L4D as a recent example. It's gone from $49.99 down ward, and is now $29.99.

They also usually offer a lower price for people who purchase games before they are released.

Steam does a fair bit of experimentation, I've found, with pricing, different types of sales, release schedules etc. They are very stats driven when it comes to their games and game-play tweaks as well.

DawnFalcon · 02-01-2010, 07:33 PM

Well, in my experience of Steam that's highly unusual. A lot of games are still £30 on Steam and in shops £5 bins.

guyanonymous · 02-01-2010, 07:43 PM

Could just be the games that I've been aware of. Despite their DRM (I can't give away or resell games I no longer play), I've come to appreciate them. They make it easy to buy new games and keep (most of) them updated. The downside, apart from their DRM approach, is that I sometimes pay more to buy them than I would here in Canada (no Cdn pricing).

bwaldron · 02-01-2010, 07:49 PM

Here's Henry Blodget's take on the situation.

Lemurion · 02-01-2010, 10:11 PM

What's funny is that in many ways Macmillan's proposed pricing structure is very similar to Baen's. $15 for "must have it now," falling to $6 later. Yes they're stretching it out over a longer timeline, but the same idea is there.

They were also trying for DRM-free releases as well, but Amazon wouldn't go for it.

I won't pay $15 for most ebooks either, but that doesn't put Amazon in the right.

Daithi · 02-01-2010, 10:32 PM

I don't read a lot of science fiction, so I can't speak to Baen's pricing structure. However, I'd always had the impression that Baen was very aggressive in adopting ebooks. They have quickly made backlist available, bundled books, provided ebooks at cheaper prices than the paper versions, released ebooks earlier than hardcovers, etc. All of this in contrast to Macmillian's adoption and pricing of ebooks. I'm sure others could speak more fully on this since I'm not a big sci-fi reader.

Were did you get the information that Amazon was preventing DRM-free releases. I was under the impression that publishers can currently select whether or not they want to include DRM on their ebooks.

Lemurion · 02-01-2010, 10:48 PM

Baen's been extremely aggressive in adopting ebooks - more so than any other publisher, and currently have two price-points for single books. $15 for the E-Arc, which is the early adopter version, and $6 for most books. You can also buy a bundle for $15. I've spent over $700 at Baen on ebooks over the years.

Macmillan, through their Tor subsidiary, has been working on a deal with Baen. One of the requirements of which (from Baen) was no DRM. I've also seen reports from a MR member who is a Tor author of the difficulty they were having in trying to get books on Amazon without DRM.

rwizard · 02-01-2010, 11:25 PM

Speaking of all this talk on DRM, if the publishers are actually looking to go away from DRM (I have not seen anything showing this personally, but based on the last few posts maybe they are considering it at least), maybe Apple will not use a proprietary DRM on epub. All we know for sure is that they are not using Adobe DRM. Maybe that was also part of their deal with the publishers, we will let you set the price for your books but we get to sell them without DRM.

Probably wishful thinking, but they sell DRM free music. Maybe they convinced the publishers.

bwaldron · 02-01-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwizard

Probably wishful thinking

Yes, I would say that it is definitely wishful thinking. Unfortunately.

Daithi · 02-01-2010, 11:40 PM

I wish more publishers treated ebooks like Baen treats them.

I hadn't seen Starriggers posts, but according to this article it is the publishers that decide whether or not to include DRM. I don't know if this has always been the case, and the article seems to imply that they aren't so sure either.

bwaldron · 02-01-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

I wish more publishers treated ebooks like Baen treats them.

Absolutely. (And O'Reilly for tech books).

Elfwreck · 02-02-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

You know, the cover art thing was a huge surprise to me...I'm guessing cover artists have BETTER contracts than the writers do!

Not exactly. But their art is generally contracted for one print run, because the assumption is, if the book is kept around for a second printing or a different format (hardcover to trade to mmpb), they'll want different art for each edition. So they don't buy the right to reprint the art the way they contract for the right for multiple printings of the text.

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02-01-2010, 07:11 PM	#151
Joebill Fanatic Posts: 517 Karma: 459442 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Alpha Centauri's Library of Alexandria Device: Pandigital Novel	I think $10 on an ebook is over-priced. Ebooks cut out the printing presses, typesetters, shipping, brick book stores, etc. I certainly wont buy ebooks that cost over $10. Raising the price is unjustified as far as I am concerned.

02-01-2010, 07:17 PM	#153
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	True, equally that's retailer and not producer-driven (And has to do with how the price and percentages are assigned in games, which are not overly favourable to wholesalers). It's notable that online services like Steam don't do this, though. While they have sales, otherwise prices don't change (oh, some older games are introduced at "classic" prices, but...)

02-01-2010, 07:24 PM	#154
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	Steam does it - look at L4D as a recent example. It's gone from $49.99 down ward, and is now $29.99. They also usually offer a lower price for people who purchase games before they are released. Steam does a fair bit of experimentation, I've found, with pricing, different types of sales, release schedules etc. They are very stats driven when it comes to their games and game-play tweaks as well.

02-01-2010, 07:33 PM	#155
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Well, in my experience of Steam that's highly unusual. A lot of games are still £30 on Steam and in shops £5 bins.

02-01-2010, 07:43 PM	#156
guyanonymous Guru Posts: 692 Karma: 27532 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Ebookwise 1150 / 1200	Could just be the games that I've been aware of. Despite their DRM (I can't give away or resell games I no longer play), I've come to appreciate them. They make it easy to buy new games and keep (most of) them updated. The downside, apart from their DRM approach, is that I sometimes pay more to buy them than I would here in Canada (no Cdn pricing).

02-01-2010, 07:49 PM	#157
bwaldron Wizard Posts: 1,230 Karma: 543210 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gatlinburg, Tennessee Device: Kindles: Paperwhite Signature Ed., Oasis 2, Voyage	Here's Henry Blodget's take on the situation.

02-01-2010, 10:11 PM	#158
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	What's funny is that in many ways Macmillan's proposed pricing structure is very similar to Baen's. $15 for "must have it now," falling to $6 later. Yes they're stretching it out over a longer timeline, but the same idea is there. They were also trying for DRM-free releases as well, but Amazon wouldn't go for it. I won't pay $15 for most ebooks either, but that doesn't put Amazon in the right.

02-01-2010, 10:32 PM	#159
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	I don't read a lot of science fiction, so I can't speak to Baen's pricing structure. However, I'd always had the impression that Baen was very aggressive in adopting ebooks. They have quickly made backlist available, bundled books, provided ebooks at cheaper prices than the paper versions, released ebooks earlier than hardcovers, etc. All of this in contrast to Macmillian's adoption and pricing of ebooks. I'm sure others could speak more fully on this since I'm not a big sci-fi reader. Were did you get the information that Amazon was preventing DRM-free releases. I was under the impression that publishers can currently select whether or not they want to include DRM on their ebooks.

02-01-2010, 10:48 PM	#160
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	Baen's been extremely aggressive in adopting ebooks - more so than any other publisher, and currently have two price-points for single books. $15 for the E-Arc, which is the early adopter version, and $6 for most books. You can also buy a bundle for $15. I've spent over $700 at Baen on ebooks over the years. Macmillan, through their Tor subsidiary, has been working on a deal with Baen. One of the requirements of which (from Baen) was no DRM. I've also seen reports from a MR member who is a Tor author of the difficulty they were having in trying to get books on Amazon without DRM.

02-01-2010, 11:25 PM	#161
rwizard Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 366 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Utah Device: iPhone, waiting for reviews on the Notionink Adam	Speaking of all this talk on DRM, if the publishers are actually looking to go away from DRM (I have not seen anything showing this personally, but based on the last few posts maybe they are considering it at least), maybe Apple will not use a proprietary DRM on epub. All we know for sure is that they are not using Adobe DRM. Maybe that was also part of their deal with the publishers, we will let you set the price for your books but we get to sell them without DRM. Probably wishful thinking, but they sell DRM free music. Maybe they convinced the publishers.

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02-01-2010, 11:40 PM	#163
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	I wish more publishers treated ebooks like Baen treats them. I hadn't seen Starriggers posts, but according to this article it is the publishers that decide whether or not to include DRM. I don't know if this has always been the case, and the article seems to imply that they aren't so sure either.