Most overhyped classic masterpiece? - Page 11

igorsk · 09-25-2009, 09:31 AM

About the opening sentences... I rather liked this one (although it's probably not a classic yet):

The man who was not Terrence O'Grady had come quietly.

orwell2k · 09-25-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akira28

With a long book the translation is very important. I had also tried a few times before finally succeeding with the Garnett translation. Highly recommended.

I'm glad someone raised that point. A little unfair to slam a book too much when it's been through the translation mill, as so much depends on the skill of the translator. I haven't met too many Russians who don't like this book (or any of the great Russian novelists).

Another good example of translation-itis is "The Count of Monte Cristo," with the newer (and fuller) translation of Robin Buss leaving the older and abridged versions in its wake (IMHO).

HarryT · 09-25-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell2k

Another good example of translation-itis is "The Count of Monte Cristo," with the newer (and fuller) translation of Robin Buss leaving the older and abridged versions in its wake (IMHO).

I must disagree with you about that. I find the use of "modern" language in the Buss translation "jarring". The older, anonymous, 1846 translation which most English editions still use is not so much abridged as slightly censored to remove sexual content which would have been unacceptable to a British Victorian readership. There is indeed a commonly-encountered abridged version (published in one volume rather than the original two), but that's an abridgement of the 1846 translation.

Heather Parker · 09-25-2009, 04:06 PM

I'll probably get shot for suggesting this but is there anyone else who doesn't enjoy Shakespeare? Maybe it's because we're forced to read it in such detail when we're at school but my mind just drifts...
I'm in the UK - do you all have to read it in school in the US too?
Heather

FlorenceArt · 09-25-2009, 04:13 PM

I don't know much Shakespeare. I just remember watching a series (from the BBC maybe?) of televised plays on Sundays when I was a teenager. They were shown in original version and subtitled, which probably wouldn't happen now. I enjoyed them, especially The Tempest. I think I saw that one twice... no, wait, the second time was the movie by Peter Greenaway (I think), which I also loved.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 09-25-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heather Parker

I'll probably get shot for suggesting this but is there anyone else who doesn't enjoy Shakespeare? Maybe it's because we're forced to read it in such detail when we're at school but my mind just drifts...
I'm in the UK - do you all have to read it in school in the US too?
Heather

I have something of a love-hate relationship with Shakespeare, and have had since school. Take Hamlet, for example. For quotable lines to make a point with, it's brilliant. The plot's halfway decent (although Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are Dead is far, far superior

), too. But amongst other complaints he takes so sodding long to die at the end (a point I made rather strongly in an essay on why Hamlet was considered a tragedy. Fortunately my English teacher not only understood, but actively rewarded, sarcasm)

mediax · 09-25-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I couldn't get past the 50th page. I may be the last person alive to have not read Tolkein! (Nor bothered to see the movies!)

Stitchawl

Fear not - you are not alone

I've always wondered if the whole thing really kicks off on page 80 or something . . .

ShortNCuddlyAm · 09-25-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediax

I've always wondered if the whole thing really kicks off on page 80 or something . . .

Nope. Nor page 800, for that matter... (imo, obviously

)

lilac_jive · 09-25-2009, 07:00 PM

I like Shakespeare....in play form. Not for reading.

Stitchawl · 09-25-2009, 08:36 PM

My son had the same feeling about Shakespear. "Dad, why do they have to talk like that?!? I can't relate to that at all and it loses my interest before I even get started!"

So I took him to 'see' Macbeth,' (which is my personal favorite) but done as a modern military story, i.e. the characters were wearing modern camo clothing, helmets, etc., but using the same wording as was written. The witches looked like 'bag ladies.' He was sucked into the story from the opening scene.

He had formed a mind set about Shakespear that locked out reality simply because of the language. If you doubt this can happen just imagine this; how many of you realize that Thoreau was being incredibly humorous in his writing of 'Walden.' Most people think Walden is dryer than dirt! It's actually very, very funny once you realize that Thoreau was being quite tongue-in-cheek much of the time!

Stitchawl

lmarie · 09-25-2009, 10:04 PM

The Last of the Mohicans (James Fenimore Cooper). School assigned, and ARGH!!! The pain, the pain...

I do though love Tolstoy, although it's been quite a while since I've read him.

Re the "n-word": at the nearly 100% African American inner city high school where I teach, use of the word is prohibited. Kids are made aware of both sides of the issue, but the school district comes down on the side of not using it.

Solicitous · 09-26-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heather Parker

I'll probably get shot for suggesting this but is there anyone else who doesn't enjoy Shakespeare? Maybe it's because we're forced to read it in such detail when we're at school but my mind just drifts...
I'm in the UK - do you all have to read it in school in the US too?
Heather

When I was in grade 9 my English teacher didn't just make us read The Merchant of Venice, he went right through the whole history of the period, created good discussions, and we really spoke as a group about the story as we read it as well as when we watched the movie. In grade 10 I was so excited about doing Shakespeare given how much I enjoyed it the previous year. Well we did Hamlet....well watched the movie and the teacher that year described a few things and that was it, took us 2 lessons. Was so disappointed. So I've found that since reading Shakespeare that I have really enjoyed it if I do more than just read the story. To me Shakespeare is to be read and enjoyed and experienced, not just read from cover to cover and think to yourself "What did I think of that?"

HarryT · 09-26-2009, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heather Parker

I'll probably get shot for suggesting this but is there anyone else who doesn't enjoy Shakespeare? Maybe it's because we're forced to read it in such detail when we're at school but my mind just drifts...
I'm in the UK - do you all have to read it in school in the US too?
Heather

That's the problem with Shakespeare - children are "force fed" him in school, and put off for life. Shakespeare did not write for children.

My advice would be to go and see a really good production of one of his "lighter" comedies - "As you like it" or "A comedy of errors", perhaps. I think you'll quickly change your mind about him.

Stitchawl · 09-26-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's the problem with Shakespeare - children are "force fed" him in school, and put off for life. Shakespeare did not write for children.

My advice would be to go and see a really good production of one of his "lighter" comedies - "As you like it" or "A comedy of errors", perhaps. I think you'll quickly change your mind about him.

I think many children of our generation were "force fed" too many books before we were ready for them.

Oh, how I hated "A Tale of Two Cities" as a 13 year old, but have since re-read it several times as an adult. Same with "Great Expectations," "Julius Cesare," "Macbeth," and "Jane Ere." (Confession... I didn't particularly enjoy 'Jane Ere' as an adult either, but at least I did finish it.

) As an adult I can re-read all of these. As a young teenager it was pure pain and almost put me off reading for life. Where was the supposed joy in reading? I can't remember a single book read for school between the ages of 12-17 that I enjoyed or for that matter even finished!

Many years later I spent a year as a teacher in a private boarding school teaching Senior English. I gave the students a list of about 8 different books for us to choose from, with synopsis of each, and group discussions about the books so 'THEY' could take responsibility for what they read. They chose well, everyone actually read the books (instead of the Cliff Notes) and we had some lively classroom debates and discussions about them. For the first semester they read "Sidhartha," and during the second semester they chose "Stranger in a Strange Land." They also read lots of poetry and performed a 'Reader's Theater' of Macbeth for the school. Considering that these were a bunch of druggies who had been thrown out of several other private schools before winding up there, I think they did damned good!

Stitchawl

Sparrow · 09-26-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's the problem with Shakespeare - children are "force fed" him in school, and put off for life. Shakespeare did not write for children.

I'm grateful we did Shakepseare at school ('King Lear' in my case). Like Solicitous, our (brilliant) teacher took us on an exploration of Elizabethan life and thought, it was thrilling! I think I got far more out of studying it then, than I would going cold to it as an adult.

The idea that schoolchildren should only study books written for children seems a bit odd.

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09-25-2009, 09:31 AM	#151
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	About the opening sentences... I rather liked this one (although it's probably not a classic yet): The man who was not Terrence O'Grady had come quietly.

09-25-2009, 04:06 PM	#154
Heather Parker Nameless Being	I'll probably get shot for suggesting this but is there anyone else who doesn't enjoy Shakespeare? Maybe it's because we're forced to read it in such detail when we're at school but my mind just drifts... I'm in the UK - do you all have to read it in school in the US too? Heather

09-25-2009, 04:13 PM	#155
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	I don't know much Shakespeare. I just remember watching a series (from the BBC maybe?) of televised plays on Sundays when I was a teenager. They were shown in original version and subtitled, which probably wouldn't happen now. I enjoyed them, especially The Tempest. I think I saw that one twice... no, wait, the second time was the movie by Peter Greenaway (I think), which I also loved.

09-25-2009, 07:00 PM	#159
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	I like Shakespeare....in play form. Not for reading.

09-25-2009, 08:36 PM	#160
Stitchawl Opsimath Posts: 12,344 Karma: 187123287 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chiang Mai, Northern Thailand Device: Sony PRS-650, iPhone 5, Kobo Glo, Sony PRS-350, iPad, Samsung Galaxy	My son had the same feeling about Shakespear. "Dad, why do they have to talk like that?!? I can't relate to that at all and it loses my interest before I even get started!" So I took him to 'see' Macbeth,' (which is my personal favorite) but done as a modern military story, i.e. the characters were wearing modern camo clothing, helmets, etc., but using the same wording as was written. The witches looked like 'bag ladies.' He was sucked into the story from the opening scene. He had formed a mind set about Shakespear that locked out reality simply because of the language. If you doubt this can happen just imagine this; how many of you realize that Thoreau was being incredibly humorous in his writing of 'Walden.' Most people think Walden is dryer than dirt! It's actually very, very funny once you realize that Thoreau was being quite tongue-in-cheek much of the time! Stitchawl

09-25-2009, 10:04 PM	#161
lmarie Dilettante Posts: 148 Karma: 132 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia area Device: EB1150, Cybook Gen3, Kobo Touch	The Last of the Mohicans (James Fenimore Cooper). School assigned, and ARGH!!! The pain, the pain... I do though love Tolstoy, although it's been quite a while since I've read him. Re the "n-word": at the nearly 100% African American inner city high school where I teach, use of the word is prohibited. Kids are made aware of both sides of the issue, but the school district comes down on the side of not using it.

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