French ‘Loi Hadopi’ anti-filesharing law passed - Page 11

pshrynk · 04-06-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The same way a mouse and an elephant can be equated. One is far larger in size and impact, but both are plant-eating, warm blooded, mammals..

Well, to be fair, mother mice eat their babies and mother elephants don't...

pshrynk · 04-06-2009, 09:14 AM

Wait. What? Don't you need to have a quorum to vote in laws in France? Try to get a lw passed here with the equivalent of 19 representatives and you'll get laughed out of Washington...

Format C: · 04-06-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Wait. What? Don't you need to have a quorum to vote in laws in France? Try to get a lw passed here with the equivalent of 19 representatives and you'll get laughed out of Washington...

In Italy, 19 reps push 372 buttons, giving the full vote (we call them "pianists", but I'd really like to shoot them)...

zelda_pinwheel · 04-06-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Wait. What? Don't you need to have a quorum to vote in laws in France? Try to get a lw passed here with the equivalent of 19 representatives and you'll get laughed out of Washington...

well this is actually another sign of the dishonest sneakiness of sarko getting this law voted : most of the députés had left when the vote was held (at 11pm on a friday night...) because it was expected that the vote would happen the following week. by holding the vote earlier than planned, he manipulated to avoid the opposition who should have been present. it should be illegal.

Godzil · 04-06-2009, 10:05 AM

And it's not the first time they try this sort of things. They loved to try to pass in force some law on the 24 of December or other days when a lot of deputies or the senators are ,for the most, elsewhere...

They try this a few years ago for DAVDSI and the LCEN

zerospinboson · 04-06-2009, 11:28 AM

Ooh, shiny:

Quote:

Never was the adage of Louis Brandeis, the US justice, more relevant: free men are naturally alert to the wiles of evil-minded rulers but “the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachments by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding”.

zelda_pinwheel · 04-06-2009, 11:28 AM

very apt quotation, zero.

LazyScot · 04-06-2009, 11:40 AM

I remember a (French) friend explaining to me that French politicians had a habit of passing laws that didn't (completely) exist. At some point in the future they would be finished, and only then they became law. According to the friend this had the benefit that the politicians could jump up and down saying how brilliant they were in responding to public opinion and addressing issues of great import (!), but without necessarily really having a law in the long term.

I'm pretty certain it wasn't April 1st when they told me this. Does anyone know if any of the above has any ring of truth to it?

slussen2 · 04-06-2009, 12:22 PM

Akin to file sharing: I installed Freecoder and thought the world was bloody wonderful. I could now record with excellent reproduction anything I liked hearing through the Internet.
The next thing thing I knew, BBC Radio 3 had blocked my listening to their programmes I had recorded from with a message concerning copyright. And I wasn't the only one. I saw that the same thing had happened to others. After about a week all was ok again. (I had written the BBC to find out what was going on but they didn't reply.) This certainly gave me food for thought.
On the whole I'm for filesharing if the big companies throw their weight around. The Internet should be a liberating, democratic thing, open to all regardless of income and country. And so many people provide their talent for nothing.
Most people don't want to break the law, so it's time there was a reasonable solution. Is this too much to hope for? Soon there'll be a judgment in Sweden on a case involving The Pirate Bay....

Sparrow · 04-06-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slussen2

Akin to file sharing: I installed Freecoder and thought the world was bloody wonderful. I could now record with excellent reproduction anything I liked hearing through the Internet.
The next thing thing I knew, BBC Radio 3 had blocked my listening to their programmes I had recorded from with a message concerning copyright. And I wasn't the only one. I saw that the same thing had happened to others.

How did the Beeb know you were recording?

I use StepVoice Recorder which records whatever comes out of the soundcard, so it's hard to see how the source would know.

Could it have been a copyright issue the BBC had with the producers of the programmes that took a while to resolve?

slussen2 · 04-06-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

How did the Beeb know you were recording?
Could it have been a copyright issue the BBC had with the producers of the programmes that took a while to resolve?

Don't know Sparrow, and I'm not likely to push the Beeb into banning me from listening to their programmes.
The filesharing problem has to have a reasonable solution, it's up to the lawmakers to find it. I'm all for a free and democratic use of the Internet.
I reckon the powerful companies against filesharing have to ask themselves how they can help lawmakers come to a solution satisfactory to all but I'm afraid they'll first have to lose their "rampant capitalism" tendencies.

dmikov · 04-06-2009, 03:54 PM

Harry, it strikes me as extremely hypocritical when you talk about defending laws and punishing the breakers and at the same time advocating breaking the most basic humanity laws.
What laws are you so vigorously defending, that it's ok to violate human rights laws, privacy laws, fair use laws and even geneva convention laws (reffering to your diatribe on acceptance of torture)?

If you, as I suspect, talking about certain countries implementation of copiright law or american lobyist pushed DMCA. I can hazard that they are certainly not worth it.

I will certainly shed a tear if copyright laws are violated, but I would let them be violated, pilaged and raped before I would accept violation of human rights and consumer right laws.

It will give You more credibilty if You start respecting ALL laws.

dki · 04-06-2009, 07:57 PM

This is really horrible. While I understand that there needs to be law enforcement, we also have rights. If this is all above the water, why special body instead of the court? This is what the courts are for. What is the appeal in this process? If the decision turns to be incorrect, who is responsible for MY damages? Where is the due process in all of this? I do not condone stealing intellectual property. But why due process should be different, and more favorable, let's add, for someone who steals a book from a bookstore? He/she is entitled to a day in court and normal rules of evidence. This is Spanish Inquisition at it's best. We will let internet crimes to be treated differently, then motor vehicle related crimes, then maybe real-estate scams, and so on. Talking about slippery slope.... This is where the danger is - treating this type of illegal activity differently from any other type of different activity. Murderer has more rights, even when caught bloody-handed and with a murder weapon in his possession.

And to answer one of the HarryT posts in the beginning of this tread - yes, I know that internet traffic and phone conversations etc are randomly (or less randomly) monitored. But, since this is not legal without a warrant, whatever they obtain in the course of their ILLEGAL activities cannot be used against me in a court of law. This, on the other hand, makes their illegal activities sort of legal.

I can only hope that the rest of the EU will not go this way. Sarki is as good for France as Bush was for US. I hope he will be equally loved and fondly remembered.

Godzil · 04-07-2009, 05:53 AM

No, the EU had a vote a few day ago that go against the HADOPI but it wasn't taken account when this law was discussed here in france.

Shaggy · 04-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Well, to go against the prevailing opinion, personally I think that this is excellent news. So called file "sharers" need to be given a strong signal that their crimes are not "acceptable" and this is a very good way to do it.

Vive la France! Let us hope that other EU countries soon join the French in their enlightened law making.

Harry, you're always good for comic relief.

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04-06-2009, 09:14 AM	#152
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	Wait. What? Don't you need to have a quorum to vote in laws in France? Try to get a lw passed here with the equivalent of 19 representatives and you'll get laughed out of Washington...

04-06-2009, 10:05 AM	#155
Godzil a pthread?? where? where? Posts: 1,763 Karma: 30462 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Somewhere in EU Device: Newton MessagePad 2100, and only this	And it's not the first time they try this sort of things. They loved to try to pass in force some law on the 24 of December or other days when a lot of deputies or the senators are ,for the most, elsewhere... They try this a few years ago for DAVDSI and the LCEN

04-06-2009, 11:28 AM	#157
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	very apt quotation, zero.

04-06-2009, 11:40 AM	#158
LazyScot DSil Posts: 3,201 Karma: 6895096 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hants, UK Device: Kindle, Cybook	I remember a (French) friend explaining to me that French politicians had a habit of passing laws that didn't (completely) exist. At some point in the future they would be finished, and only then they became law. According to the friend this had the benefit that the politicians could jump up and down saying how brilliant they were in responding to public opinion and addressing issues of great import (!), but without necessarily really having a law in the long term. I'm pretty certain it wasn't April 1st when they told me this. Does anyone know if any of the above has any ring of truth to it?

04-06-2009, 12:22 PM	#159
slussen2 Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Málaga, Spain Device: Kindle Touch	Akin to file sharing: I installed Freecoder and thought the world was bloody wonderful. I could now record with excellent reproduction anything I liked hearing through the Internet. The next thing thing I knew, BBC Radio 3 had blocked my listening to their programmes I had recorded from with a message concerning copyright. And I wasn't the only one. I saw that the same thing had happened to others. After about a week all was ok again. (I had written the BBC to find out what was going on but they didn't reply.) This certainly gave me food for thought. On the whole I'm for filesharing if the big companies throw their weight around. The Internet should be a liberating, democratic thing, open to all regardless of income and country. And so many people provide their talent for nothing. Most people don't want to break the law, so it's time there was a reasonable solution. Is this too much to hope for? Soon there'll be a judgment in Sweden on a case involving The Pirate Bay....

04-06-2009, 03:54 PM	#162
dmikov Addict Posts: 257 Karma: 960 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: REB1200; REB2150; Sony 500/350; EZReader; IREX DR800SG; Nook/Color	Harry, it strikes me as extremely hypocritical when you talk about defending laws and punishing the breakers and at the same time advocating breaking the most basic humanity laws. What laws are you so vigorously defending, that it's ok to violate human rights laws, privacy laws, fair use laws and even geneva convention laws (reffering to your diatribe on acceptance of torture)? If you, as I suspect, talking about certain countries implementation of copiright law or american lobyist pushed DMCA. I can hazard that they are certainly not worth it. I will certainly shed a tear if copyright laws are violated, but I would let them be violated, pilaged and raped before I would accept violation of human rights and consumer right laws. It will give You more credibilty if You start respecting ALL laws.

04-06-2009, 07:57 PM	#163
dki Connoisseur Posts: 84 Karma: 1213350 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New Jersey, US Device: Dell Axim X5; RCA 1100; Augen The Book, PRS350x2, Sony T1, Kobo AuraHD	This is really horrible. While I understand that there needs to be law enforcement, we also have rights. If this is all above the water, why special body instead of the court? This is what the courts are for. What is the appeal in this process? If the decision turns to be incorrect, who is responsible for MY damages? Where is the due process in all of this? I do not condone stealing intellectual property. But why due process should be different, and more favorable, let's add, for someone who steals a book from a bookstore? He/she is entitled to a day in court and normal rules of evidence. This is Spanish Inquisition at it's best. We will let internet crimes to be treated differently, then motor vehicle related crimes, then maybe real-estate scams, and so on. Talking about slippery slope.... This is where the danger is - treating this type of illegal activity differently from any other type of different activity. Murderer has more rights, even when caught bloody-handed and with a murder weapon in his possession. And to answer one of the HarryT posts in the beginning of this tread - yes, I know that internet traffic and phone conversations etc are randomly (or less randomly) monitored. But, since this is not legal without a warrant, whatever they obtain in the course of their ILLEGAL activities cannot be used against me in a court of law. This, on the other hand, makes their illegal activities sort of legal. I can only hope that the rest of the EU will not go this way. Sarki is as good for France as Bush was for US. I hope he will be equally loved and fondly remembered.

04-07-2009, 05:53 AM	#164
Godzil a pthread?? where? where? Posts: 1,763 Karma: 30462 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Somewhere in EU Device: Newton MessagePad 2100, and only this	No, the EU had a vote a few day ago that go against the HADOPI but it wasn't taken account when this law was discussed here in france.

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