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Old 02-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #151
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PayPal is not a bank. They provide a service and are allowed to determine who they provide that service to.
They effectively act as a bank, and in Europe (I believe) they are legally considered a bank. I'd have to look up the details, but PayPal got sued for acting as a bank, but not declaring themselves one.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #152
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They effectively act as a bank, and in Europe (I believe) they are legally considered a bank. I'd have to look up the details, but PayPal got sued for acting as a bank, but not declaring themselves one.
They're a bank based out of Luxembourg for the EU IIRC. In the US they're not a bank, but licensed as a money transmitter or something like that.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:37 PM   #153
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...It's similar to the folks who said WalMart was censoring playboy because they wouldn't carry the magazine. You can't force an organization to sell what you want.
, but if I was looking for a sure-fire method of killing off my brain cells, I could think of no faster or more foolproof way then to buy all my books and magazines from Wal-Mart. I avoid their reading section like it was the Black Death.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:57 PM   #154
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It is quite different. If WalMart, or any other retailer doesn't want to sell Playboy, I can go elsewhere, because I have many choices in retailers. But there are few choices for how I get my money to the seller. WalMart cannot suppress Playboy, but a finance company looking over my shoulder can. Paypal isn't selling anything, they are just moving money from the buyer to the seller.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:58 PM   #155
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I've got a whole folder of night clubs and other groups that charge single men two to three times what they do single women, and impose restrictive dress codes on men while allowing women to wear practically nothing. Freedom of Association? Don't make me laugh. Freedom doesn't allow you to abuse up to half the bloody population by telling them that just because they had the unfortunate accident of being born with boy parts, that they're second- class citizens.
This has been happening to women for centuries.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:06 PM   #156
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But there are few choices for how I get my money to the seller.
Few choices does not equal no choice. Smashwords can make other arrangements to accept money from their customers.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:09 PM   #157
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Mind, I've not gone through each of these checking their TOS's, but surely a FEW aren't going to be as restrictive as Paypal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...vice_providers
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:13 PM   #158
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Few choices does not equal no choice.
Yes, it does. With only a few choices, collusion is very easy.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #159
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Smashwords can make other arrangements to accept money from their customers.
If they were willing shut down for the time it took them to "retool," then maybe they could make other arrangements. But since Paypal didn't give them enough time to find another working solution without risking a lot of lost sales across the board, it amounts to bullying.

Perhaps Paypal should thoroughly vet potential customers before they accept their business? Wouldn't that make more sense? But of course if they did it that way, then they wouldn't have the necessary leverage to impose their (or their masters' ) will on businesses that have already committed to a certain merchant model.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:19 PM   #160
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If they were willing shut down for the time it took them to "retool," then maybe they could make other arrangements. But since Paypal didn't give them enough time to find another working solution without risking a lot of lost sales across the board, it amounts to bullying.

Perhaps Paypal should thoroughly vet potential customers before they accept their business? Wouldn't that make more sense? But of course if they did it that way, then they wouldn't have the necessary leverage to impose their (or their masters' ) will on businesses that have already committed to a certain merchant model.
But it is harder for to engage in extortion that way...
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:25 PM   #161
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Few choices does not equal no choice.
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Originally Posted by QuantumIguana View Post
Yes, it does.
Ok, since you say so.

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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
But since Paypal didn't give them enough time to find another working solution without risking a lot of lost sales across the board, it amounts to bullying.

Perhaps Paypal should thoroughly vet potential customers before they accept their business? Wouldn't that make more sense? But of course if they did it that way, then they wouldn't have the necessary leverage to impose their (or their masters' ) will on businesses that have already committed to a certain merchant model.
Agreed. I have said earlier that PayPal should have given them more time to comply or find another payment processor.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
If they were willing shut down for the time it took them to "retool," then maybe they could make other arrangements. But since Paypal didn't give them enough time to find another working solution without risking a lot of lost sales across the board, it amounts to bullying.

Perhaps Paypal should thoroughly vet potential customers before they accept their business? Wouldn't that make more sense? But of course if they did it that way, then they wouldn't have the necessary leverage to impose their (or their masters' ) will on businesses that have already committed to a certain merchant model.
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But it is harder for to engage in extortion that way...
Exactly. Plus Paypal is known for keeping the money of their clients who they have these (artificially created) issues with.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #163
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Ok, since you say so.
I could have said the same thing to you. If I can't get a book because a handful of companies control where I can send my money, it effectively the same as if the book is banned.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #164
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I could have said the same thing to you. If I can't get a book because a handful of companies control where I can send my money, it effectively the same as if the book is banned.
Since it is clear we aren't going to agree, I am not going to continue the argument any longer. Have a nice day.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:48 PM   #165
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That is probably for the best.
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