Penguin ends library/Overdrive relationship starting tomorrow

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by glendalekid

Because I don't have a Kindle, I've not paid very much attention to the Kindle format in library e-books. I've just noticed that the Penguin Books in the library I belong to are now downloaded only directly the computer and must be put on a Kindle via USB cord.

So, if this is what Penguin has done with the books already owned/licensed to the libraries, exactly what is this "no more Penguin books to libraries" REALLY all about.

I'm thinking the USB process makes it harder to crack DRM and harder for Amazon to get as much of your reading data (for syncing etc.).

As for "no more Penguin books" I think that means their new releases, not the existing book licenses already purchased by the library.

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by Joykins

I'm thinking the USB process makes it harder to crack DRM and harder for Amazon to get as much of your reading data (for syncing etc.).

Well in a meeting with the ALA the publishers said one issue they had with e-book lending was that there was not enough "friction" in the transaction compared to paper book lending. This USB deal may be their way of trying to add some friction.

A key issue that arose in each meeting is the degree to which “friction” may decline in the ebook lending transaction as compared to lending print books. From the publisher viewpoint, this friction provides some measure of security. Borrowing a print book from a library involves a nontrivial amount of personal work that often involves two trips—one to pick up the book and one to return it. The online availability of ebooks alters this friction calculation, and publishers are concerned that the ready download-ability of library ebooks could have an adverse effect on sales.

[SeaBookGuy]

When Overdrive started its in-library computers, I thought at the time that they'd phase out at-home borrowing. The publishers want control of the "gratification" (or convenience, if you prefer) market; I'd say there may be a two-tier system where some books are going to have to be downloaded (or checked out for later download) in-house only. If you can't/won't do that, you'll have to buy it. That's what "friction" is all about.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy

When Overdrive started its in-library computers, I thought at the time that they'd phase out at-home borrowing. The publishers want control of the "gratification" (or convenience, if you prefer) market; I'd say there may be a two-tier system where some books are going to have to be downloaded (or checked out for later download) in-house only. If you can't/won't do that, you'll have to buy it. That's what "friction" is all about.

I have thought and still think that the track the publishers desire to take puts them in direct and unavoidable conflict with US disabilities laws, and that no amount of money paid through lobbyists will keep them from taking a drubbing as this is forced from behind closed doors and into the public square.

The publishers are holding a losing hand, there in no redeal, and all bluffs will be called.

Well, it looks like they are doing a good job at creating friction. It is just that it may not be the type of friction that they wanted (i.e. they are alienating readers).

Then again, I'm of the opinion that technology should benefit everyone more-or-less equally. The publishers are doing a bit of a power grab by killing the resale market. While I understand why this is necessary (resale in the digital world easily becomes piracy), that doesn't mean that I have to like it. Now they want to add artifical limits like friction? Friction with printed books wasn't terribly different between libraries and stores. Stores had a slight advantage because they had more copies, but not much else.

Maybe the solution is for publishers to become libraries themselves, while having public libraries lending ebooks as well. The big difference is that libraries could only lend out copies they buy, while publishers would have an unlimited supply. The big advantage of the publishers library is that you would never be on a waiting list (you simply pay X dollars per year to borrow N books at a time). The big advantage for libraries is that they could operate much as they always have.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Well, it looks like they are doing a good job at creating friction. It is just that it may not be the type of friction that they wanted (i.e. they are alienating readers).

Exactly! If Penguin wants friction, then friction is what they're going to get. I'm no longer a Penguin customer. No more buying, no more borrowing.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by cjr72

Well in a meeting with the ALA the publishers said one issue they had with e-book lending was that there was not enough "friction" in the transaction compared to paper book lending. This USB deal may be their way of trying to add some friction.

I can attest to that. In my little nook of the world we have a satelite library. I would say that 60 - 70 % of its content is geared towards the young reader, and I find that commendable. The material geared towards adults are usually a couple of years old, it gets out there when demand at the main branch starts to decline. Obviously, they will bring out anything from the main branch if you put a hold on it. Hence, the "friction" is in triplicate, you order, pick up and finally return (sometimes I will make a new order at that time, but surprisingly often I don't).
Now that I discovered e-lending I've pretty much become a hoarder. They allow you take out three books in seven days and I haven't missed an opportunity yet. Probably because I've read books in other languages than Swedish since I moved to e-Readers, lots of catching up to do. I'm sure that in due time I will stop hoarding, but right now it is too much fun.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Same here. Guess which books I'll no longer borrow for my Kindle?

I absolutely refuse to borrow books that require me to sideload to my Kindle and I've contacted my library expressing my displeasure over this turn of events.

Our library doesn't (I think) have kindle format for their digital media (I look at new releases almost every day). But that aside, to require going TO the library to borrow an e-book!! I had heard of this lunacy somewhere else.

That's like driving to the post office to read your e-mail.

Penguin is going the wrong direction. If they think making my life harder to read one of their silly books is going to make me stick one of their books on my "to buy" list, they better think again.

Does Penguin not realize that books are a recreation? An optional thing?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Our library doesn't (I think) have kindle format for their digital media (I look at new releases almost every day). But that aside, to require going TO the library to borrow an e-book!! I had heard of this lunacy somewhere else.

You don't have to go to the library. Penguin is requiring all Kindle borrows be downloaded to your computer first and then transferred to your Kindle via USB. Wireless transfers through Amazon are no longer allowed. IOW, pretty much the same way as an epub borrow.

I resent that, because I like the freedom of wireless transfers and refuse to go backwards with technology.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by CyGuy

I am continually amazed at how many people believe in the pay-per-read scam. Karma inbound...

I used to buy a lot of printed knitting patterns, I'd knit the item from the pattern, then pass it (the pattern) on to a friend. Some, (but not all, thankfully) knitting pattern designers don't like this idea at all.

But prior to reading stuff on the internet from content creators. I used to think nothing of passing on products I was done with. From clothes, to books, to Osterizer Blenders.

[CyGuy]

BAD PENGUIN!

An good read for those interested:
http://qcfriends.org/notallbits/peng...ess-practices/

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by cjr72

Well in a meeting with the ALA the publishers said one issue they had with e-book lending was that there was not enough "friction" in the transaction compared to paper book lending. This USB deal may be their way of trying to add some friction.

As I posted on another thread:

***
And anyone who thinks that library loans on Overdrive are "frictionless" are welcome to try to browse for a book they might like on Overdrive* and then check it out as an epub/pdf and tell me all about the relative frictionlessness of it all


* of interest in my experience with Overdrive at the Md and DC libraries: categories include "Fantasy", "Science Fiction and Fantasy", and "Science Fiction", all with interlapping listings; no way to refine category searching; listings without plot descriptions of any sort, or nearly meaningless plot descriptions; search can only filter one format at a time (so you need to do separate searches for pdfs and epubs, unless you allow every format and end up with audiobook listings too); only 10-25 hits per page; series without all the volumes; ease of selecting the wrong format; limits on number of holds;d long waitlist times; incredible slowness especially when loading and refreshing wishlists; random problems with ADE when downloading/transferring especially to a full ereader; oh, I could go on. Searches on specific titles/authors are much better, but I'm a browser by nature. Kindle lending is easier at the download end but the browsing experience is the same.

***

Since I have to use a USB to load library books onto my nook anyway, I would rather use one than go to the store and buy a Penguin book. (On the other hand, in an ideal world I don't think publishers *should* have any more control over library lending than they do of library lending of DTBs, as long as the license manages one borrow at a time).

[calibrated]

Let's face it: the publishers would have been happier had the concept of a library never existed, and would have killed public libraries off long ago if they'd been able to. Now that e-book lending is here, they're doing their d***edest to kill it before it becomes too entrenched. They might even succeed, but if they do, it will be replaced by something even more antithetical to their interests--piracy. They may win the battle, but they'll lose the war.

[anamardoll]

So does anyone know how an indie can get their book for sale on Overdrive? Maybe the indies can pick up the void that Penguin is trying to make?

[MrsJoseph]

Honestly I think that if Overdrive stopped playing footsie with Amazon, this problem could be solved easier.

Hopefully 3M will step into the breach and create contracts that will not allow 3rd party retailers access to library patron private information.