Is this a pirate site?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

To me any term that clearly indicates that such behavior is clearly wrong

The problem is that some of the terms being intentionally thrown around by certain interests lead people to believe that some behavior is wrong... when it actually isn't. "Theft" implies a lot of things that don't actually exist in copyright law.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by TGS

In many ways I agree with you - if theft is what it is, then that's what it should be called. But I guess many would disagree that it is theft.

Depends on your personal definition of "theft".

It certainly isn't according to the legal definition. Some people want you to think it is though.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The problem is that some of the terms being intentionally thrown around by certain interests lead people to believe that some behavior is wrong... when it actually isn't. "Theft" implies a lot of things that don't actually exist in copyright law.

So does "piracy", but people seem perfectly happy to use that, even though copyright infringement has absolutely nothing to do with robbery at sea, which is what piracy actually is.

We can't control what people call things. Like it or not, some people use the word "theft" for copyright infringement, just as other people use the word "piracy"; both are of course, technically incorrect, but language is a living, evolving, thing. It's futile to try to dictate to people what they should or should not call something.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Hey, I took your car for a spin and returned it before you noticed!

Except, of course, that's not what actually happens with copyright infringement so it's a bad analogy.

How about you make an identical copy of their car, and then take that copy for a spin. What crime occurred then? None.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

It is a different type of theft, a theft were someone did not steal a physical object, but the exclusive (I am disregarding fair use exceptions for the moment) right to create copies of a file.

There's already a word for infringing on someone's exclusive rights. Some people believe that the word should be more sinister than it is, though. That's why they try to pick other words which aren't accurate, but will carry more of the tone that they personally believe should be associated with the act. They want to create associations with more serious behavior, that doesn't actually exist.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I'll let you take a guess as to whose interests such terminology serves. .... It's unfortunate that many people fall for the rhetoric.

What's unfortunate is that regardless of rhetoric, some people insist on doing harm and encouraging it. I mean you'd think society has lost any moral decency they might once have had.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

Let's lynch the librarians!

They prefer to be called "Buccaneers".

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Ok, let's call it "Is sharing copyrighted material theft?".

That wouldn't cover downloading something that someone else has "shared"

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Saying that something shouldn't be regarded as a crime, merely because lots of people do it, seems like a rather poor excuse.

Except, of course, that's not what he said. He said it shouldn't be a felony, not it shouldn't be a crime.

I suspect, for example, that the overwhelming majority of people who hold a UK driving licence get a speeding ticket at some point during their driving career; should we de-criminalise speeding simply because a lot of people do it?

Is speeding a felony?

[HarryT]

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "felony" - I don't think we use that word in Britain. If you tell me what it means, I'll tell you whether or not speeding is one!

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Ok, let's call it "Is sharing copyrighted material theft?".

The first thing you have to do is define "theft". Lots of people have their own personal definitions, or else try to come up with a definition specifically in order to make copyright infringement fit into it.

[mr ploppy]

One thing that nobody seems to have mentioned yet in all this -- if that pirate site can make money from people who want to download hundreds of old/out of print ebooks to burn onto a CDR and forget about (and maybe even read 1 or 2 of them), why can't the publishers all get together do something similar? It's not as if there is going to be much of a market for those type of books at full price.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So does "piracy", but people seem perfectly happy to use that, even though copyright infringement has absolutely nothing to do with robbery at sea, which is what piracy actually is.

We can't control what people call things. Like it or not, some people use the word "theft" for copyright infringement, just as other people use the word "piracy"; both are of course, technically incorrect, but language is a living, evolving, thing. It's futile to try to dictate to people what they should or should not call something.

The difference I see is that "theft" is also a legal term, while "piracy" is not (at least not in a modern sense). People want to evolve the definition of theft to cover copyright infringement... but the legal definition of theft is not changing, nor are the legal proceedings/punishments, etc. When you change the definition of the common usage of "theft" it also makes people mistakenly associate that with the legal consequences of "real" theft. For many people, that is the reason they want to do so. It's an attempt to intentionally mislead people about the consequences and responsibilities of copyright infringement.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The first thing you have to do is define "theft". Lots of people have their own personal definitions, or else try to come up with a definition specifically in order to make copyright infringement fit into it.

You don't have to do anything. This is an evolving situation as I've tried to indicate, just because you don't like the term does not make it inappropriate. Just as using the term Pirate has come to have a specific meaning wrt digital media then other terms may come to have different meanings in this context. The term theft is perfectly descriptive to me, but you know that.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I mean you'd think society has lost any moral decency they might once have had.

That includes corporations (including the content industry) as well as individuals. You can easily argue that what they're doing to increase the scope and punishments for copyright infringement are just as morally indecent as the people who are "pirating".