If only I lived in the US. - Page 10

Kevin2960 · 02-10-2010, 08:31 AM

Thnx Lente,

and Dragonbone Please take away all my Karma, i'm not here to win a popularity contest, but to learn more about eBooks etc, mainly because like many I can no longer manage Printed Books,

Lets get mad at the Publishers, the Lawers, eReader Manufacturers and anyone making it more difficult for us to read what and how we want, NOT each other, because That way ONLY We Lose right ?

Oh and i still wish i lived in the US and had so many more options on eReaders and eBooks, can't help being jealous

Ben Thornton · 02-10-2010, 08:47 AM

I can't resist pointing out (as nobody has) some facts:
- illegal copying is not theft
- it is a civil not a criminal offence
This has been discussed at great length elsewhere.

Using this emotive language inevitably hijacks the thread as a debate about piracy.

It would be fair enough to say something like:
"I feel that it's wrong to copy a book illegally just because you can't obtain it where you want or at the price that you want."

If you want to avoid getting mad at each other, best not to call people names.

Kevin2960 · 02-10-2010, 08:54 AM

Point taken, I'm still not happy with it, whatever its called,taking what you don't legally have a right too is still wrong, but thnx for the correction Ben !

lente · 02-10-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I don't see those two options as real options. That way you will not make a point. You will only impress the fact that ebooks apparently aren't that important to you. And publishers will be vindicated: see, nobody wants to buy our books (we all know they are very short-sighted and only see what they want to see...)

I simply refuse to buy a paper book because the publisher made it restricted to another country. It makes it look like the publisher won. Especially if I have to order that book from the States in the first place.

My option would be:

3. Buy the book any way you can.

Civil disobedience I think is the only way to impress the fact that we are not amused with the geographic restrictions, but that we do love ebooks.

No, indeed, ebooks are not more important to me than living a good moral life, are they for you?

As for what publishers will or will not do in the future, I wouldn't know. I hope they do come around to seeing it more like most of us do, and I think they will, but it will take time, maybe a lot of time. I'm not convinced that downloading ebooks illegally will help our cause.

Dr. Drib · 02-10-2010, 09:00 AM

Members:

Please stay on topic, or start your own thread.

Thank you.

Don
(Moderator)

Ben Thornton · 02-10-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin2960

Point taken, I'm still not happy with it, whatever its called,taking what you don't legally have a right too is still wrong, but thnx for the correction Ben !

And thank you for your gracious response

Back OT, so far, my (limited as yet, I'm afraid) experience of places to purchase ebooks from the UK (without having to dissemble) is:
Baen (the webscriptions site) - no problem buying via PayPal
Waterstones
WHSmith ebooks

I've had free stuff from smashwords and fictionwise. Am I going to struggle to purchase content from fictionwise even via micropay? Presumably smashwords is OK.

What other sites can one buy from the UK (or globally), without any messing about? Is there another thread/part of the wiki that lists these?

lente · 02-10-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

I can't resist pointing out (as nobody has) some facts:
- illegal copying is not theft
- it is a civil not a criminal offence
This has been discussed at great length elsewhere.

Using this emotive language inevitably hijacks the thread as a debate about piracy.

It would be fair enough to say something like:
"I feel that it's wrong to copy a book illegally just because you can't obtain it where you want or at the price that you want."

If you want to avoid getting mad at each other, best not to call people names.

Just out of curiosity, if it's not theft then what is it and what is the difference between civil and criminal offence?

Edit: Maybe you can PM the response, I wouldn't want to go off-topic in the thread i've started myself.

Ben Thornton · 02-10-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lente

Just out of curiosity, if it's not theft then what is it and what is the difference between civil and criminal offence?

I do not wish to bring down the wrath of the mods by going off topic. See this recent thread for a l o n g discussion on this!

Briefly on-topic again, what is the law about buying ebooks when abroad? If I buy a paperback when on holiday in the US, I can bring it home. Is the same true of an ebook? If I download "Gone With The Wind" when in Australia, can I keep it when I go home?

dragonbone · 02-10-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

If I download "Gone With The Wind" when in Australia, can I keep it when I go home?

OK, I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but that was hysterical!!!
Well... let's see... if you bought it on your Kindle it could magically disappear as you were crossing the big wide ocean? Who knows what could happed on the forthcoming iPad... (I said could....

incase anyone got upset...)

Kevin2960 · 02-10-2010, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonbone

Quote:

OK, I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but that was hysterical!!!
Well... let's see... if you bought it on your Kindle it could magically disappear as you were crossing the big wide ocean? Who knows what could happed on the forthcoming iPad... (I said could.... incase anyone got upset...)

I agree wholeheartedly Dragonbone, but I am now worried about books dissapearing where the sun doesn't shine, boy i have enough trouble keeping track of books at the best of times,

Holding out an olive branch big enough to beat the publishers with, after all, almost all of us just want to read,

Sweetpea · 02-10-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lente

No, indeed, ebooks are not more important to me than living a good moral life, are they for you?

As for what publishers will or will not do in the future, I wouldn't know. I hope they do come around to seeing it more like most of us do, and I think they will, but it will take time, maybe a lot of time. I'm not convinced that downloading ebooks illegally will help our cause.

I don't see any criminal action in buying a book, myself. I doubt the author cares about where I live.

In case lying about my location is some sort of fraud, yes, I can live perfectly with the knowledge I am committing fraud in this case. Nobody is getting worse, only better. There is no other way for me to get the book (as nobody else publishes it for me to get legally). So the publisher who owns the rights for the book in my region isn't losing anything (how can you lose a sale if you don't even sell it?), the publisher who does publish the book gets my money and part of that money goes to the author as agreed between the publisher and author.

Mind you, I'm still talking about buying the book and only circumventing restrictions, not downloading from the darknet!

asjogren · 02-10-2010, 11:57 AM

Perhaps this stupid wall can be brought down piece-by-piece.

There have been 3 thrusts of complaints as I recall:
1) I am an ex-patriot or immigrant and I cannot buy books or eBooks in my language of choice because there is such a limited market demand for books in that language. The restrictions should be opened up because NO ONE is serving my needs. Revenues are being lost to the industry.

2) The publishers/distributors in my country either don't sell eBooks, don't sell them in the format I need, or don't sell the titles I want. But, they are available elsewhere. As a result, I either don't purchase, or, occasionally I use a fake address and buy where they are available. At times I have found illicit copies online. Revenues are being lost to the industry.

3) Because of geographic restrictions, the sources of eBooks in my country have created a virtual monopoly and price gouge. I am incensed that I have to pay so much more for the same product. I am angry. And I don't spend much money when I feel that I am being ripped off. Revenues are being lost to the industry.

The sheer stupidity of geographical restrictions is that THE INDUSTRY MAKES LESS MONEY. How do we get them to understand this?

markbond1007 · 02-10-2010, 01:40 PM

The thing that gets me is that not only is this not stealing (you are parting with money at a legitimate point of sale for the item), but that no-one is actually loosing out either!

Why is no-one loosing out? well so far everyone has been talking about books that just aren't available in their region, and that means that the book in question is not available to buy in that region ergo no one appears to be actually selling it!!! so no one is actually loosing out (assuming that you weren't going to buy the e-book in the first place).

Mark

captcrouton · 02-11-2010, 03:09 AM

I'm an American living in Ukraine, and I understand the pain. I've got more than enough to read at this time that I'm not hunting down walk arounds. But it was frustrating when I wanted to watch an Office episode. We tried every legal route we could. I have an American credit card and an American billing address but Itunes (at the time, I was even to work with them) would not sell me the episode.

I wasn't allowed to watch in online, which would be available for free to anyone living in the U.S. I commented that I'm an American with an American computer and you're not making any profit from showing the episode online. Do you just hate people who live in Ukraine?

At the end, someone in my party who knew the darknet had downloaded the episode and we've been watching them that way ever since. I've since stopped feeling guilty about this sort of transpirations. I don't want to own the episode, only watch it once. If I were back home I could watch it for free at any time. I'd love to give them my money, but they don't want it. I'll even watch their online ads, but they don't want that.

poshm · 02-11-2010, 05:06 AM

There are lots of ebooks I'd like to buy for example the whole series of Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind as I have all these in hardback format. I can buy the first book in the series from Amazon but not the rest!?!

On the positive side, I am discovering a whole lot of new books and authors that I'd never read before (Dickens, Dumas, Wells) and also a lot of childhood favourites - Little Women, What Katy Did, Black Beauty, Heidi which are all free

And my daughter enjoys being read to as well - so 2 happy campers.

In an ideal world it would be great to get everything you want but I guess in this instance I'll just try and make the best of what is available - and let's face it, I'm never going to read all the ebooks on mobileread, nevermind anywhere else.

02-10-2010, 08:31 AM	#136
Kevin2960 YODA's Uglier Twin Posts: 974 Karma: 6295251 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK Device: PRS-600 and 2 Kindle 3's - and now a K4 + HTC Desire HD	Thnx Lente, and Dragonbone Please take away all my Karma, i'm not here to win a popularity contest, but to learn more about eBooks etc, mainly because like many I can no longer manage Printed Books, Lets get mad at the Publishers, the Lawers, eReader Manufacturers and anyone making it more difficult for us to read what and how we want, NOT each other, because That way ONLY We Lose right ? Oh and i still wish i lived in the US and had so many more options on eReaders and eBooks, can't help being jealous Last edited by Kevin2960; 02-10-2010 at 08:36 AM. Reason: added last sentence

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02-10-2010, 08:47 AM	#137
Ben Thornton Guru Posts: 900 Karma: 779635 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2 (but not for e-books)	I can't resist pointing out (as nobody has) some facts: - illegal copying is not theft - it is a civil not a criminal offence This has been discussed at great length elsewhere. Using this emotive language inevitably hijacks the thread as a debate about piracy. It would be fair enough to say something like: "I feel that it's wrong to copy a book illegally just because you can't obtain it where you want or at the price that you want." If you want to avoid getting mad at each other, best not to call people names.

02-10-2010, 08:54 AM	#138
Kevin2960 YODA's Uglier Twin Posts: 974 Karma: 6295251 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK Device: PRS-600 and 2 Kindle 3's - and now a K4 + HTC Desire HD	Point taken, I'm still not happy with it, whatever its called,taking what you don't legally have a right too is still wrong, but thnx for the correction Ben !

02-10-2010, 09:00 AM	#140
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,461 Karma: 59592133 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: KINDLE: Oasis 3, Scribe (1st), Matcha; KOBO: Libra 2, Libra Colour	Members: Please stay on topic, or start your own thread. Thank you. Don (Moderator)

02-10-2010, 11:57 AM	#147
asjogren Addict Posts: 266 Karma: 1378 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ	Perhaps this stupid wall can be brought down piece-by-piece. There have been 3 thrusts of complaints as I recall: 1) I am an ex-patriot or immigrant and I cannot buy books or eBooks in my language of choice because there is such a limited market demand for books in that language. The restrictions should be opened up because NO ONE is serving my needs. Revenues are being lost to the industry. 2) The publishers/distributors in my country either don't sell eBooks, don't sell them in the format I need, or don't sell the titles I want. But, they are available elsewhere. As a result, I either don't purchase, or, occasionally I use a fake address and buy where they are available. At times I have found illicit copies online. Revenues are being lost to the industry. 3) Because of geographic restrictions, the sources of eBooks in my country have created a virtual monopoly and price gouge. I am incensed that I have to pay so much more for the same product. I am angry. And I don't spend much money when I feel that I am being ripped off. Revenues are being lost to the industry. The sheer stupidity of geographical restrictions is that THE INDUSTRY MAKES LESS MONEY. How do we get them to understand this?

02-10-2010, 01:40 PM	#148
markbond1007 Connoisseur Posts: 57 Karma: 122 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: CyBook Gen3, Sony PRS-600	The thing that gets me is that not only is this not stealing (you are parting with money at a legitimate point of sale for the item), but that no-one is actually loosing out either! Why is no-one loosing out? well so far everyone has been talking about books that just aren't available in their region, and that means that the book in question is not available to buy in that region ergo no one appears to be actually selling it!!! so no one is actually loosing out (assuming that you weren't going to buy the e-book in the first place). Mark

02-11-2010, 03:09 AM	#149
captcrouton Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 84 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Kyiv, Ukraine Device: Kindle 2	I'm an American living in Ukraine, and I understand the pain. I've got more than enough to read at this time that I'm not hunting down walk arounds. But it was frustrating when I wanted to watch an Office episode. We tried every legal route we could. I have an American credit card and an American billing address but Itunes (at the time, I was even to work with them) would not sell me the episode. I wasn't allowed to watch in online, which would be available for free to anyone living in the U.S. I commented that I'm an American with an American computer and you're not making any profit from showing the episode online. Do you just hate people who live in Ukraine? At the end, someone in my party who knew the darknet had downloaded the episode and we've been watching them that way ever since. I've since stopped feeling guilty about this sort of transpirations. I don't want to own the episode, only watch it once. If I were back home I could watch it for free at any time. I'd love to give them my money, but they don't want it. I'll even watch their online ads, but they don't want that.

02-11-2010, 05:06 AM	#150
poshm Fanatic Posts: 581 Karma: 1003580 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cambs, UK Device: PocketBook 360, Sony Reader Touch, Ipod touch & Kindle 2	There are lots of ebooks I'd like to buy for example the whole series of Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind as I have all these in hardback format. I can buy the first book in the series from Amazon but not the rest!?! On the positive side, I am discovering a whole lot of new books and authors that I'd never read before (Dickens, Dumas, Wells) and also a lot of childhood favourites - Little Women, What Katy Did, Black Beauty, Heidi which are all free And my daughter enjoys being read to as well - so 2 happy campers. In an ideal world it would be great to get everything you want but I guess in this instance I'll just try and make the best of what is available - and let's face it, I'm never going to read all the ebooks on mobileread, nevermind anywhere else.

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