Amazon pulls MacMillan?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by starrigger

My feeling about the darknet is that most people who are likely to be my customers would rather buy a legit copy of my work if it's available--and most of them probably never even venture into the darknet, if they even know what it is. To the degree that people see my work anywhere, I figure it helps more than it hurts, as it makes more people aware of my books. Same reason I put half a dozen of my books up for free download.

I really am in favor of cheap ebooks. But that doesn't make me want to burn the store down in order to save it.

I'm surprised, because you're one of the very few authors who has dedicated .torrents to your name, instead of being lumped into a collection of books (yes you're in those collections also). You must be well loved to have that kind of attention. Only fans would ever provide a singular .torrent lilke that.

[phenomshel]

Argh!!!! All the titles that were MacMillan on my wishlist that are "missing" are the ones not available anywhere except Amazon!! Son of a %&^*(!!!!!

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I'm surprised, because you're one of the very few authors who has dedicated .torrents to your name, instead of being lumped into a collection of books (yes you're in those collections also). You must be well loved to have that kind of attention. Only fans would ever provide a singular .torrent lilke that.

Erm...really? I did not know that. Huh.

I've really only looked there a few times, after someone clued me in to the fact that my earlier books were there in pdf, and sent them to me in a ziplock bag, so to speak.

I do seem to have very loyal fans, just not enough of them.

I'd still rather have people reading pirated copies of my stuff than none at all. In the long run, I'm guessing, that leads to more paid copies.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Argh!!!! All the titles that were MacMillan on my wishlist that are "missing" are the ones not available anywhere except Amazon!! Son of a %&^*(!!!!!

Let us hope that this is a temporary state of affairs.

In the meantime...I think I've spent way too much time on this for my sanity tonight. If I'm smart, I'll go right now and turn off the router.

I do, after all, have a book that's not writing itself....

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Argh!!!! All the titles that were MacMillan on my wishlist that are "missing" are the ones not available anywhere except Amazon!! Son of a %&^*(!!!!!

I wouldn't worry about it. Either one-or-the-other will cave, and the books will be back up at Amazon soon--or Macmillan *will* find another online outlet for its books.

I'm kinda hoping for that option. If a couple of large-ish publishers just aren't available through Amazon, that could be the breakpoint for Amazon's near-monopoly on online bookselling.

I think Amazon's shooting themselves in the foot with this one. Instead of intimidating Macmillan, they're scaring their own customers, who are getting a flash of, "wow... if there's a problem with Amazon, where am I gonna buy stuff?" And Amazon kept its market share by keeping people from ever asking that question.

[ficbot]

I don't think the 'darknet' is as much of an issue as people think. I have done some searching just for my own information since I hear it mentioned so often, and all I have found are PDFs which are a pain to convert/read on my devices, and very poorly formatted text files riddled with errors.

The big danger is not so much the darknet 'hoarders' as it is the legitimate customer who may have bought and now will not, and there was this problem in the paper-only days too---I never have bought a hardback novel in my life and would either wait for the paperback or borrow it from the library. My library often has best-sellers available as a quick loan where there is no reserving and if you go in and it's there, you can grab it but you only get it for a couple days. Six months or a year is simply too long to leave a reader like me waiting. If I *really* want to read it and you won't sell it to me when I want to read it, I'll get it from the library or borrow from a friend. On one occasion, I was overseas and it was raining so I spent most of the afternoon at a Barnes & Noble and read the book on the spot---I am a born speed-reader and can go through something quick like a mystery in less than a day.

In the past, with the need to print and ship and inventory and such, the 'hardback first and you wait for the paperback' idea made sense. But in the e-days, where it *can* be made available and some suit somewhere is just choosing not to so they can mess with people? No thank you. Sell it to me right away, or don't sell it at all. I have plenty else to read and by the time you get around to 'windowing' the book my way, I'll have read it elsewhere or else I won't be interested anymore.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I wouldn't worry about it. Either one-or-the-other will cave, and the books will be back up at Amazon soon--or Macmillan *will* find another online outlet for its books.

I'm kinda hoping for that option. If a couple of large-ish publishers just aren't available through Amazon, that could be the breakpoint for Amazon's near-monopoly on online bookselling.

I think Amazon's shooting themselves in the foot with this one. Instead of intimidating Macmillan, they're scaring their own customers, who are getting a flash of, "wow... if there's a problem with Amazon, where am I gonna buy stuff?" And Amazon kept its market share by keeping people from ever asking that question.

I sincerely hope you're right but....the titles that were there were there because they weren't available anywhere else. MacMillan could easily decide that "oh well too bad, we'll sell enough paper copies through other channels to make it up" and not make the ebooks available again, anywhere. They already seem less than enthusiastic about making their titles available in ebook. MacMillan is one of the worst offenders for leaving holes in series in ebook formats or the author's work isn't available at all in ebook forms.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I don't think the 'darknet' is as much of an issue as people think. I have done some searching just for my own information since I hear it mentioned so often, and all I have found are PDFs which are a pain to convert/read on my devices, and very poorly formatted text files riddled with errors.

They are, just not on the public trackers and rapidshare. I don't want to give anyone pointers, but well, it's no secret there are some specialist sites...

(Why yes, I do believe in "know thy enemy")

[anurag]

From http://www.publishersmarketplace.com...n_30jan10.html

This past Thursday I met with Amazon in Seattle. I gave them our proposal for new terms of sale for e books under the agency model which will become effective in early March. In addition, I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale, but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles. By the time I arrived back in New York late yesterday afternoon they informed me that they were taking all our books off the Kindle site, and off Amazon. The books will continue to be available on Amazon.com through third parties.

I regret that we have reached this impasse. Amazon has been a valuable customer for a long time, and it is my great hope that they will continue to be in the very near future. They have been a great innovator in our industry, and I suspect they will continue to be for decades to come.

It is those decades that concern me now, as I am sure they concern you. In the ink-on-paper world we sell books to retailers far and wide on a business model that provides a level playing field, and allows all retailers the possibility of selling books profitably. Looking to the future and to a growing digital business, we need to establish the same sort of business model, one that encourages new devices and new stores. One that encourages healthy competition. One that is stable and rational. It also needs to insure that intellectual property can be widely available digitally at a price that is both fair to the consumer and allows those who create it and publish it to be fairly compensated.
...

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If a couple of large-ish publishers just aren't available through Amazon, that could be the breakpoint for Amazon's near-monopoly on online bookselling.

I doubt it. At this point, MacMillan almost certainly needs Amazon more than the other way around.

On a separate note, it seems to me that everyone except a leading retailer's customers are equally unhappy with whoever is on top. In the pre-Internet days, B&N was the big dog / Big Bad -- e.g. the industry was livid when B&N wanted to buy Ingram. Similarly, the music industry is miserable about Apple dominating legal music downloads.

Not that Amazon is perfect; but that whoever supplants them isn't likely to be any different or palatable. (And yes, it does seem to me that the human tendency is to gravitate to a single source for this kind of thing.)

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I think Amazon's shooting themselves in the foot with this one. Instead of intimidating Macmillan, they're scaring their own customers, who are getting a flash of, "wow... if there's a problem with Amazon, where am I gonna buy stuff?" And Amazon kept its market share by keeping people from ever asking that question.

Maybe, but if they didn't whack Macmillan in the knees, all the major publishers were likely to demand the same terms from Amazon as they've gotten with Apple.

[charleski]

Wow.

I predicted the disagreement would erupt into overt war between Amazon and the publishers, but I didn't expect it to happen this soon. This is a very significant development. The real question now is whether other publishers climb on board over the coming weeks.

Amazon and the Kindle are certainly in a strong position, but the ebook marketplace still has a lot of room to grow and there's plenty of space for retail competitors to muscle in. Everyone at B&N must be wearing a big sloppy grin right now.

Personally, I'm wary of agency pricing for books. It was tried in the UK for a long time and it didn't work. But Amazon's flat-pricing model is even worse and Amazon's levels were unsustainable. The tiered, dynamic pricing that Sargent refers to in his letter (prices ranging from 14.99 for new releases to 5.99 for backlist) makes much more sense and will be better for the industry as a whole.

There are a lot of people on MR who don't see further than the price at the checkout and seem to think Amazon is some sort of consumer's champion. But I'm with Macmillan on this. The industry needs greater flexibility to remain healthy and a healthy industry is good for anyone who loves books.

Originally Posted by Robotech_Master

Bear in mind that, as Cory Doctorow said, just because Amazon wants to charge only $9.99 doesn't mean they're your friend.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Erm...really? I did not know that. Huh.

I've really only looked there a few times, after someone clued me in to the fact that my earlier books were there in pdf, and sent them to me in a ziplock bag, so to speak.

I do seem to have very loyal fans, just not enough of them.

I'd still rather have people reading pirated copies of my stuff than none at all. In the long run, I'm guessing, that leads to more paid copies.

Certainly does gain you fans. Your whole attitude towards piracy will only gain you fans, because the next generation will all be pirates by today's standards.

[HarryT]

Is this only affecting Amazon US? I see that, for example, all Robert Jordan's books continue to be available on the UK Amazon site.

[kaas]

@Harry

Only titles sold directly by Amazon have been pulled. Third party offers are still there...

cheers,
kaas

[wallcraft]

This seems to be a very bad deal for authors. They get a percentage of the list price, and under the agency approach is the list price and the selling price are always identical. If the author gets 10%:

• Currently the list price is $30 and Amazon sells for $9.99 the publisher gets $15 and the author $3
• If Amazon forces publishers to accept the $9.99 price point, the list price is $18 the publisher gets $9 and the author $1.80
• Under the agency deal the list/selling price is $15 the publisher gets $10.50 and the author gets $1.50.

Assuming that ebook list prices have to come down, the publisher clearly wins with a 70% cut but the author equally clearly looses.