Frustrated with all the recent posts by Kindle-only authors

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

We don't need FB2. All the devices I've heard of that support Fb2 also support one of the other listed formats. IMP yeah. That can be made from the Mobipocket copy. We already have eReader in the list. No need for it yet again.

Agreed on FB2 and IMP; FB2 devices have something else, and IMP is easily converted to (I didn't know "from mobi is best", but I figured it was easy enough.)

PalmDOC is different from eReader--there are devices and apps that'll read PalmDOC but not eReader files, just like there are devices that will read TXT but not Word DOC files. Converting to PalmDOC is much like converting to TXT; it's a simple process, but you need to start with clean originals, or else you get a lot of junk involved. Editing PalmDOC is not as easy as editing TXT, mostly because the software to do so doesn't come standard on every computer. (Also, like text, I don't think it's DRM-able.)

I agree that they're not necessary for a basic standard range of ebook formats, but if someone were looking to offer the complete list, it'd include these three. Not having to convert to the format of your choice is nice.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by =X=

You know the irony of ePUB is that PDF does today what ePUB has failed to deliver.

There's no irony there. ePub is a relatively new format that has yet to be accepted, or even heard of, by most people.

PDF was introduced by Adobe almost 2 decades ago, aggressively developed, redeveloped and marketed by being pre-loaded into computers and browser programs, promoted in big business, and readers given away for free with a link from every website, worldwide. (Little Known Fact: In their opening days, they edged out of the market a similar product introduced by WordPerfect at about the same time.)

Given all of that effort expended by Adobe, it's no wonder PDF is as ubiquitous as it is. And if they expended the same amount of effort on ADE, I'm sure we'd see the same ubiquitousness in... about 20 years.

Actually, ePub is on the right track, as more readers adopt it, more e-books are offered in it, and more apps are developed to read it. Having a central site for most of those apps, instructions, etc, wouldn't hurt (the IDPF should set up such a user-friendly site, their present site isn't very inviting to the consumer, and of course do a better job at branding it).

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Given all of that effort expended by Adobe, it's no wonder PDF is as ubiquitous as it is. And if they expended the same amount of effort on ADE, I'm sure we'd see the same ubiquitousness in... about 20 years.

I don't think so. I believe what pushed PDF to its market dominance is Microsoft's (and Corel's) fanatic proprietary approach, combined with email attachment limitations that no longer exist.

Businesses that wanted to share documents couldn't just send the Word .doc or .ppt file couldn't count on the receiver being able to open it; having a version that anyone could read and print with free software was a godsend. The fact that PDFs compress better than Word/WP documents (which compress nicely when zipped, but that involves *more* software, and technical actions that a lot of people didn't understand) made them easier to share even when both people had the same word processing software.

PDFs absolutely dominate the business file exchange industry. That's a much more solid hold than the nebulous ebook market. No ebook format is going to replace PDF; it dominates too much of the business and legal worlds.

However, cars dominate the personal transportation world, yet both motorcycles and large trucks are substantial industries. They won't be replaced by cars, no matter how much cheaper or safer cars are. There's plenty of room for other ebook formats, even if PDF continues to be the most ubiquitous filetype for document exchange.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I don't think so. I believe what pushed PDF to its market dominance is Microsoft's (and Corel's) fanatic proprietary approach, combined with email attachment limitations that no longer exist.

Yes, that was a problem... but it could have been solved in many ways (including simplifying documents to TXT or HTML formats). PDF arose as the solution of choice because it was the most heavily and constantly marketed. If Adobe hadn't pushed it as they did, I'd bet we'd probably be converting all documents to HTML now.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Smashwords did a survey to figure out which formats were downloaded the most often. Here is a link:

http://blog.smashwords.com/2009/03/w...ks-matter.html

That is very interesting. I tried to make the pie chart appear here, but it didn't work.

Manybooks.net provides a running compilation of downloads-by-format, and their results are rather different. Let's see if I can make the current snapshot readable here:

(Manybooks) Popular Formats, from above link:

PDF 380,552
eReader 154,098
FictionBook 127,279
ePub 112,416
Palm Doc 76,101
iSilo 72,551
Plucker 72,502
RTF 67,270
Large Print PDF 62,235
Kindle 62,120
Sony (Librie, Reader) 51,471
Mobipocket 50,179
Mobipocket-mobi 44,092
Plain text 42,701
Cellphone (.jar) 26,979
Microsoft LIT 22,392
Custom HTML 21,595
iPod 9,525
iPhone Books.app 3,016
Rocketbook 2,541
zTXT 1,070
TCR 270
Newton 185
Bookmarklet 138
iLiad PDF 1

I don't even know what Fictionbook format means. And note that they break mobipocket into three different groups.

My own rankings, which I posted earlier, are different from either of these. And Steve reports that his, for paid rather than free, downloads are different still (at least regarding PDF).

Looks like one conclusion is that it's different for every site. Possibly because the demographic types drawn to that particular site are different from those who go to other sites.

[PhishStyx]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

PDF (eBook) is incorrect. PDF is not an eBook format. It's a print format.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you claiming that opinion as fact does NOT make it true. You simply think that if you spout off enough, you will convince people that you're right and hope that it will become true via the weight of popularity.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by krischik

You fly over help is super duper clear. My fear is that not may actually read them.

I'm sure some don't. But I hope most people who need them will discover them the first time they hesitantly move over a link.

(I said) But keep in mind that I was trying to get many formats listed in a confined space.

I realize now that I blew that by adding the iPhone links a month or two ago, forcing additional lines. I may revisit the question when I have time.

Ahh, and I screwed your stats by downloading multiple formats.

Martin

Naw, I figure lots of people do that. I do it myself, when I download books--I get PRC for my Cassiopeia and EPUB and/or LRF for my Sony. I use the Cassiopeia in bed and when I want to stick something in my pocket to go. Otherwise, I use the Reader.

Note that I never go for PDF myself, unless it's the only choice.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

PDF (eBook) is incorrect. PDF is not an eBook format. It's a print format.

You're not making sense again, John.

Also, you're not making sense in a very authoritative tone, as usual... which makes your post toxic to people who don't know any better.

- Ahi

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

There's no irony there. ePub is a relatively new format that has yet to be accepted, or even heard of, by most people.

PDF was introduced by Adobe almost 2 decades ago, aggressively developed, redeveloped and marketed by being pre-loaded into computers and browser programs, promoted in big business, and readers given away for free with a link from every website, worldwide. (Little Known Fact: In their opening days, they edged out of the market a similar product introduced by WordPerfect at about the same time.)

Given all of that effort expended by Adobe, it's no wonder PDF is as ubiquitous as it is. And if they expended the same amount of effort on ADE, I'm sure we'd see the same ubiquitousness in... about 20 years.

Actually, ePub is on the right track, as more readers adopt it, more e-books are offered in it, and more apps are developed to read it. Having a central site for most of those apps, instructions, etc, wouldn't hurt (the IDPF should set up such a user-friendly site, their present site isn't very inviting to the consumer, and of course do a better job at branding it).

Actually ePub is HTML. And HTML is at least 18 years old.

ePub is trying to accomplish what HTML could not accomplish in 18 years... with HTML.

Good luck!

- Ahi

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by ahi

Actually ePub is HTML. And HTML is at least 18 years old.

ePub is trying to accomplish what HTML could not accomplish in 18 years... with HTML.

Funny, I don't see a coordernated movement eighteen years ago to create a reader standard based on HTML.

Cite, thanks.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

I just looked at the pie chart. I never would've guessed ePub would be so dominant already!

Of course, that is just at Smashwords, and has no bearing on anyone else... but it is a good indicator that knowledgeable e-book readers are buying into ePub.

Mark's comment about authors and publishers needing to supply as many formats as possible is admirable. My opinion is that the e-book reading devices should be able to read as many formats as possible, so that whatever format the e-book is provided, the device can read it. That would seem to me to be more sensible than forcing authors and publishers to provide the same product in 5+ formats.

Originally Posted by starrigger

I don't even know what Fictionbook format means.

Fictionbook format is just one more format... FB2.

You're right, Jeffrey, every site has a different demographic, and I'm sure it depends on customers, region, available readers, even dominant e-book genres (I've suspected that some genres favor certain formats over others, which can skew results further).

[ahi]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Funny, I don't see a coordernated movement eighteen years ago to create a reader standard based on HTML.

Cite, thanks.

Your understanding of the issues seems ... lacking, to say the least.

Also, an inability to understand is not a virtue.

- Ahi

[DawnFalcon]

So you can't cite. Well, that's telling isn't it.

[doreenjoy]

This discussion seems to have morphed into debating the merits or lack thereof of PDF. I notice the same argument is going on in another thread. Perhaps the discussion could be carried on in that thread instead of duplicate arguments being posted here, too? Just a suggestion.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Here's a better idea: Let's let both PDF discussions go. We've hashed over all this many, many times, and added nothing new to the arguments.