Brooklyn Library restricts access to Tin Tin book - Page 10

JSWolf · 08-24-2009, 05:27 PM

When they ban books like this and it gets out to the public, more people are going to want to read this then if they had just left it alone. So all they are doing it bringing attention to something best left as it was.

GlennD · 08-24-2009, 05:53 PM

I remember reading the Tintin books as a kid, and thinking the monkey people were some sort of alien or magical race/tribe. I'm horrified to find out that people think that they're supposed to represent blacks.

(I've learned my mistake as an adult, of course.)

I think I'd rather let my kids and I appreciate the charm of the Tintin stories, and then let the stories lead to some discussion of racism and stereotypes rather than sticking them in a back room. (Luckily I have my own copies of several of the Tintin books.)

If we're going to hide away everything racist, sexist or otherwise offensive then we'll end up burying not only Tintin and Twain, but also Burroughs and Haggard, Ian Fleming, the Arabian Nights and a host of other literature.

doreenjoy · 08-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I have never understood censorship from a country that has the freedom of speach as nr 1 rule.

The right to free speech in the USA does not mean that anyone has the right to say anything at any time.

"Free Speech" means that the federal government will make no law abridging the right of citizens to say what they want.

Corporations, companies, private business, and yes -- lending libraries -- are fully able to make rules and policies abridging free speech.

(Sometimes it's nice to have a mate who's a constitutional scholar)

Sonist · 08-24-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

...
Corporations, companies, private business, and yes -- lending libraries -- are fully able to make rules and policies abridging free speech....

Definitely not "fully" able.

But, yes, the Brooklyn Library is within its rights to toss out Tin Tin. And the "public" is within its rights to make calls to toss out the moron who made this decision.

ahi · 08-24-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When they ban books like this and it gets out to the public, more people are going to want to read this then if they had just left it alone. So all they are doing it bringing attention to something best left as it was.

Did you read either the article or this thread before posting?

- Ahi

Ham88 · 08-25-2009, 12:18 AM

I don't think this thread is about tintin anymore really, its about what freedom of speech really means. I think that this is shown by the way that healthcare reform is going over here in the States. People aren't discussing the real issue at hand but they are discussing their irrational fears associated with it. In the health care reform debate people are talking about death panels, and saying President Obama is just like Hitler. Here people are saying that reading a comic that at the time wasn't meant to harm anyone, and now it doesn't harm anyone, children don't see racism, adults do. This wouldn't be an issues if parents would discuss what their kids are reading with so they understand what they are reading, fiction from a less enlightened time that illustrates humanity's infinite stupidity.

In my opinion thats all there is to the issue people need to communicate better, not spout fears, we can't remove things from our past no matter how distasteful because if we do we are doomed to repeat it.

I apologize for the injection of politics thats the other thing on my mind of late.

geneven · 08-25-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by animedude01

I have to agree. Lots of people _claim_ America is the land of the free and you're free to speak your mind, but that's only until you say something they personally don't like. Then they try to shut you up by any means possible. It's really ridiculous, but it seems to be how humans are wired. They all seem to feel "My way is the right way, and don't you forget it!"

I agree with this, but I think it's better to live in a place where people claim to be for free speech than in a place where there is no pretense of tolerance. I remember being aghast during the Vietnam War when my fellow leftists tried to shout down those who disagreed, when I just wanted to prove them wrong. Now it's the right-wing doing it most of the time, headed by Bill O'Reilly and his "Shut up!"

Luckily, most of us have unpopular opinions on some subject or other, so we have reason to band together and support tolerance.

Riocaz · 08-25-2009, 05:38 AM

Anyone else reading this thread and seeing the similarities between it and the "Popplers" tv debate from Futurama...

Maybe Ahi would like to try leading us in some swaying next...

ahi · 08-25-2009, 08:10 AM

It seems I keep overestimating people... a pity.

- Ahi

HarryT · 08-25-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennD

If we're going to hide away everything racist, sexist or otherwise offensive then we'll end up burying not only Tintin and Twain, but also Burroughs and Haggard, Ian Fleming, the Arabian Nights and a host of other literature.

Not to mention Agatha Christie. Eg, from the first few pages of "And Then There Were None":

Quote:

What exactly was up, he wondered? That little Jew had been damned mysterious.
‘Take it or leave it, Captain Lombard.’
He had said thoughtfully:
‘A hundred guineas, eh?’
He had said it in a casual way as though a hundred guineas was nothing to him. A hundred guineas when he was literally down to his last square meal! He had fancied, though, that the little Jew had not been deceived—that was the damnable part about Jews, you couldn’t deceive them about money—they knew!

That was perfectly "OK" when this book was written, but some people may think it a little "anti-Semitic" by today's standards.

Riocaz · 08-25-2009, 08:31 AM

"a little"? :-)

And lets not mention the original name of that book.

HarryT · 08-25-2009, 08:35 AM

But this is, of course, Agatha Christie deliberately portraying a character who has anti-Semitic attitudes. Is it "wrong" for an author to have characters in her books who have prejudices?

Slite · 08-25-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But this is, of course, Agatha Christie deliberately portraying a character who has anti-Semitic attitudes. Is it "wrong" for an author to have characters in her books who have prejudices?

I would say "No it isn't", just because a fictional character is politically incorrect doesnt have to mean that the author is.

FlorenceArt · 08-25-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But this is, of course, Agatha Christie deliberately portraying a character who has anti-Semitic attitudes. Is it "wrong" for an author to have characters in her books who have prejudices?

Hah! Score one for Harry

FlorenceArt · 08-25-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slite

just because a fictional character is politically incorrect doesnt have to mean that the author is.

Oh, OK, so now we're going to start reviewing author's opinions before we allow their books in libraries, independent of what they write in their books?

You see, the problem with censorship is, you can start with the best of intentions, but where does it stop?

08-25-2009, 12:18 AM	#141
Ham88 Zealot Posts: 134 Karma: 994 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Maine, United States Device: Ectaco Jetbook	I don't think this thread is about tintin anymore really, its about what freedom of speech really means. I think that this is shown by the way that healthcare reform is going over here in the States. People aren't discussing the real issue at hand but they are discussing their irrational fears associated with it. In the health care reform debate people are talking about death panels, and saying President Obama is just like Hitler. Here people are saying that reading a comic that at the time wasn't meant to harm anyone, and now it doesn't harm anyone, children don't see racism, adults do. This wouldn't be an issues if parents would discuss what their kids are reading with so they understand what they are reading, fiction from a less enlightened time that illustrates humanity's infinite stupidity. In my opinion thats all there is to the issue people need to communicate better, not spout fears, we can't remove things from our past no matter how distasteful because if we do we are doomed to repeat it. I apologize for the injection of politics thats the other thing on my mind of late. Last edited by Ham88; 08-25-2009 at 12:19 AM. Reason: typos

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08-24-2009, 05:27 PM	#136
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	When they ban books like this and it gets out to the public, more people are going to want to read this then if they had just left it alone. So all they are doing it bringing attention to something best left as it was.

08-24-2009, 05:53 PM	#137
GlennD Wizard Posts: 2,119 Karma: 17500000 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Pacific NW Device: sony PRS350, iPhone, iPad	I remember reading the Tintin books as a kid, and thinking the monkey people were some sort of alien or magical race/tribe. I'm horrified to find out that people think that they're supposed to represent blacks. (I've learned my mistake as an adult, of course.) I think I'd rather let my kids and I appreciate the charm of the Tintin stories, and then let the stories lead to some discussion of racism and stereotypes rather than sticking them in a back room. (Luckily I have my own copies of several of the Tintin books.) If we're going to hide away everything racist, sexist or otherwise offensive then we'll end up burying not only Tintin and Twain, but also Burroughs and Haggard, Ian Fleming, the Arabian Nights and a host of other literature.

08-25-2009, 05:38 AM	#143
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	Anyone else reading this thread and seeing the similarities between it and the "Popplers" tv debate from Futurama... Maybe Ahi would like to try leading us in some swaying next...

08-25-2009, 08:10 AM	#144
ahi Wizard Posts: 1,790 Karma: 507333 Join Date: May 2009 Device: none	It seems I keep overestimating people... a pity. - Ahi

08-25-2009, 08:31 AM	#146
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	"a little"? :-) And lets not mention the original name of that book.

08-25-2009, 08:35 AM	#147
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,556 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	But this is, of course, Agatha Christie deliberately portraying a character who has anti-Semitic attitudes. Is it "wrong" for an author to have characters in her books who have prejudices?

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