Seriousness Learning a new language - Page 10

HarryT · 07-03-2009, 03:40 AM

I think my favourite Latin derivation is "infant" from Latin "in" (="not") + "fando" (="speaking"). ie an "infant" is someone too young to speak.

Stitchawl · 07-03-2009, 04:53 AM

Please forgive me, but I must disagree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Using a syllabary is easier than using an alphabet, since misspellings are impossible.

Why did I get so many low scores on my spelling tests?!?

Perhaps if there were only one syllabary this might be true, but when I have two of them available I have the ability to create an entirely new language (according to my teachers!) Katakana and hiragana were quite easy to learn. Using them correctly was another story. In 'theory' it should be quite easy to keep them separate. In my reality, it just ain't so!

Frankly, I find it easier to deal with kanji. Perhaps I'm just more visually oriented, but pictures seem to make more sense to me.

Quote:

And finally, you are missing my main point. Japanese is not difficult if you just want to learn to communicate, it is difficult to achieve perfection.

Send for the Pronoun Police!! We need to switch your 'you ' for an 'I. '

I find Japanese extremely difficult, and I've lived here for many years, have Japanese family, etc. Most difficult language I've ever tried to learn (and I speak several.) I take my hat off to any foreigner who is able to hold a real conversation in Japanese. Not just ask or answer questions but actually converse.

Stitchawl

HansTWN · 07-03-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

Please forgive me, but I must disagree...

Why did I get so many low scores on my spelling tests?!?

Perhaps if there were only one syllabary this might be true, but when I have two of them available I have the ability to create an entirely new language (according to my teachers!) Katakana and hiragana were quite easy to learn. Using them correctly was another story. In 'theory' it should be quite easy to keep them separate. In my reality, it just ain't so!

Frankly, I find it easier to deal with kanji. Perhaps I'm just more visually oriented, but pictures seem to make more sense to me.

Send for the Pronoun Police!! We need to switch your 'you ' for an 'I. '

I find Japanese extremely difficult, and I've lived here for many years, have Japanese family, etc. Most difficult language I've ever tried to learn (and I speak several.) I take my hat off to any foreigner who is able to hold a real conversation in Japanese. Not just ask or answer questions but actually converse.

Stitchawl

Well, I respect your opinion. That is your personal experience. With computers and smart phones writing Kanji has become a lot easier for a foreigner, I give you that. So call off the pronoun police, I was just voicing my opinion from my experience, first hand (I just studied Japanese for 6 months) and second hand. Many Taiwanese speak Japanese extremely well since Japan is well admired by the very old and the below 30 crowd here. Should I write a big warning "PERSONAL OPINION" every time?

On another note, I noticed your name, Stitchawl, and picture -- are you a shoemaker?

Stitchawl · 07-03-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Well, I respect your opinion.

... and it's only that. An opinion.

Quote:

On another note, I noticed your name, Stitchawl, and picture -- are you a shoemaker?

No, not a shoemaker. An avid leather crafter as hobby and avocation.

Stitchawl

nekokami · 07-03-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Should I write a big warning "PERSONAL OPINION" every time?

Not a "big warning," but yes, if you express your comments as "I found Japanese easy to learn" or similar, you'll probably get fewer arguments than when you post "Japanese is easy to learn." That makes it clear that you are reporting your own experience, rather than making a blanket claim.

HansTWN · 07-03-2009, 10:45 PM

Mea culpa, I considered that fact to be self evident, that I was expressing a personal opinion.

Not easy navigating the dangerous waters of this forum, hope I won't have to watch every word! Should I get out a wet noodle?

sunsetsylvia · 07-10-2009, 07:12 AM

Conversing on any internet platform can be a tricky business. Irony and humour often don't transport well, and sometimes things come across harsher than intended - I speak from personal experience.
So it's indeed better to be more cautious about the how we say things, than in person on person talk.

Just my 2cents!

HansTWN · 07-10-2009, 07:39 AM

Definitely true, especially when we are talking about people from so many different nationalities. And on the internet you are missing the input from facial expressions and body language. But if we all just lighten up we will be ok. The point is to have a spirited discussion, not to agree on everything. Discussions are no fun when you have to watch every word to make absolutely sure that nobody could possibly take it the wrong way. And if misunderstandings do happen, then a quick explanation should suffice and we all forget about it. Am I right or am I right?

igorsk · 07-17-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That is a theory many Koreans put forth. Japanese claim it is not true. Of course, nationalistic passions ride high between these two nations! I have no knowledge of Korean, I only know it is not related to Chinese, even though they have picked up a lot of Chinese words and Kanji. And Finnish and Hungarian are Asian in origin. So some minor similarities with Japanese, as commented on by Nekokami, would not be unheard off; but probably are just coincidental as mentioned.

I don't know any Korean but a few times when watching Korean movies or animation (subtitled) I've heard some words which sounded extremely similar to Japanese words I knew and the translation matched.

Here's an interesting article on the subject:

Quote:

The similarities of Japanese and Korean syntax are remarkable by any standards. To begin with what is usually considered a superficial point: Word order is almost the same, not just in broad SOV (subject-object-verb) terms but often down to the tiniest quirks of linguistic device. I would guess they are nearly as close as English and Danish at the everyday conversation level. But Danish is not only closely related to English; it seems the Vikings additionally Scandinavianised English word order. That Japanese and Korean have retained a similar degree of closeness down the centuries may not mean anything, as many linguists say, but it is certainly suggestive.

http://www.translationdirectory.com/article527.htm

sunsetsylvia · 07-27-2009, 02:58 PM

HansTWN, you are right!

jumpjack · 10-06-2009, 03:29 AM

I didn't read the whole thread, but I think this is the right thread where to post this question into.

Does it exist any bilingual ebook? Does it exist any bilingual e-book generator? There are plenty of novels out there available in multiple languages, and reading a novel in two languages at same time is a nice method to learn languages.

Loose_Appeal · 10-06-2009, 03:31 AM

Or you could just take a class in learning a Language. It really does work. Unless you're some sort of autistic erudite or something, a class is your best bet. If anyone is interested in learning German, there's the government backed institute that does just that.

Latinandgreek · 10-06-2009, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Personally, my main expertise is in Latin and Attic ("ancient") Greek.

OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I am so glad to see another classical philology buff here. I thought we were a dying breed!

Sweetpea · 10-06-2009, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose_Appeal

Or you could just take a class in learning a Language. It really does work. Unless you're some sort of autistic erudite or something, a class is your best bet. If anyone is interested in learning German, there's the government backed institute that does just that.

Even at school, reading was a major part of learning a written language. Only pronunciations you must learn in a class.

I must be some autistic erudite or something (whatever that is) because I still can't speak or read French with even some level of competence, even after 3 years of classes.

Latinandgreek · 10-06-2009, 04:31 AM

I am something of a language buff. I am a native speaker of English (born in Canada), I speak Croatian fluently (my husband is Croatian and I have been living in Croatia for a number of years; also I was taught Croatian in a family setting). I have university degrees in French, Italian, Latin and Greek. I have taken courses in Modern Greek, Spanish, Catalan, Japanese and German. The next language I would like to begin learning is Sanskrit.

When I begin learning a new language I feel like some sort of detective, using clues and hints from speech to figure out grammatical rules and word definitions on my own, and I love the feeling. The best way to broaden my vocabulary is, I find, reading. The best way to learn how to communicate with people in a foreign language is, well, simply to communicate, even if it means making a few mistakes along the way. There is no need to be shy about making a few mistakes, it is inevitable! The more you speak, the better you get at it, no two ways about it. Yes, you have to get some grammar down before you can get to the point at which you can start to converse with people, but it involves less work than one would think.

If you don't have much of an opportunity to converse with people in the language you are studying, I would suggest watching movies / television in that language, and maybe getting some sort of "conversational" learning cds.

10-06-2009, 03:31 AM	#147
Loose_Appeal Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish? Posts: 85 Karma: 162 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Current: PRS-650, Previous: Books	Or you could just take a class in learning a Language. It really does work. Unless you're some sort of autistic erudite or something, a class is your best bet. If anyone is interested in learning German, there's the government backed institute that does just that. Last edited by Loose_Appeal; 10-06-2009 at 03:34 AM.

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07-03-2009, 03:40 AM	#136
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I think my favourite Latin derivation is "infant" from Latin "in" (="not") + "fando" (="speaking"). ie an "infant" is someone too young to speak.

07-03-2009, 10:45 PM	#141
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Mea culpa, I considered that fact to be self evident, that I was expressing a personal opinion. Not easy navigating the dangerous waters of this forum, hope I won't have to watch every word! Should I get out a wet noodle?

07-10-2009, 07:12 AM	#142
sunsetsylvia Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 352 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austria Device: Sony PRS-505 (sangria red), PRS-350 (silber), Galaxy Tab	Conversing on any internet platform can be a tricky business. Irony and humour often don't transport well, and sometimes things come across harsher than intended - I speak from personal experience. So it's indeed better to be more cautious about the how we say things, than in person on person talk. Just my 2cents!

07-10-2009, 07:39 AM	#143
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Definitely true, especially when we are talking about people from so many different nationalities. And on the internet you are missing the input from facial expressions and body language. But if we all just lighten up we will be ok. The point is to have a spirited discussion, not to agree on everything. Discussions are no fun when you have to watch every word to make absolutely sure that nobody could possibly take it the wrong way. And if misunderstandings do happen, then a quick explanation should suffice and we all forget about it. Am I right or am I right?

07-27-2009, 02:58 PM	#145
sunsetsylvia Enthusiast Posts: 43 Karma: 352 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austria Device: Sony PRS-505 (sangria red), PRS-350 (silber), Galaxy Tab	HansTWN, you are right!

10-06-2009, 03:29 AM	#146
jumpjack Member Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	I didn't read the whole thread, but I think this is the right thread where to post this question into. Does it exist any bilingual ebook? Does it exist any bilingual e-book generator? There are plenty of novels out there available in multiple languages, and reading a novel in two languages at same time is a nice method to learn languages.

10-06-2009, 04:31 AM	#150
Latinandgreek Warrior Princess Posts: 5,038 Karma: 9724231 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505; PRS-350, PRS-T1, iPad, Aura HD	I am something of a language buff. I am a native speaker of English (born in Canada), I speak Croatian fluently (my husband is Croatian and I have been living in Croatia for a number of years; also I was taught Croatian in a family setting). I have university degrees in French, Italian, Latin and Greek. I have taken courses in Modern Greek, Spanish, Catalan, Japanese and German. The next language I would like to begin learning is Sanskrit. When I begin learning a new language I feel like some sort of detective, using clues and hints from speech to figure out grammatical rules and word definitions on my own, and I love the feeling. The best way to broaden my vocabulary is, I find, reading. The best way to learn how to communicate with people in a foreign language is, well, simply to communicate, even if it means making a few mistakes along the way. There is no need to be shy about making a few mistakes, it is inevitable! The more you speak, the better you get at it, no two ways about it. Yes, you have to get some grammar down before you can get to the point at which you can start to converse with people, but it involves less work than one would think. If you don't have much of an opportunity to converse with people in the language you are studying, I would suggest watching movies / television in that language, and maybe getting some sort of "conversational" learning cds.

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