Calibre - An excellent program, but no thanks

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

You talk as though searching in the calibre folder structure is impossible.

With searching folders I meant manual search (browsing) and that require that the folder structure maps to how I think about a structure. And that mean manual categorization of books.

And I was not really talking about Calibre. I talking about your opinon that search is the new way and everything else is useless. I just think that is totally wrong.

[macr0t0r]

Ugh...they're not going to let this go. Simply put: they have a specific way they want to do something, and that's that. I suppose I can relate to that (I created my own PML to HTML script so that the resulting Sony LRF file from the HTML would be JUST RIGHT.)

Look guys, you can sort by any attribute and you can search by any attribute. Whatever your preference may be, it's unlikely you'd have a scenario where you could only find a book by browsing a specific directory structure. This is not a bug or missing feature, it's a preference. If you want it so badly, then you'll have to do more than just disagree with kovidgoyal, you have to HELP him.

In any case, it's apparent I'm only repeating myself so I better excuse myself from this thread before I fall to troll status. The original poster, stisev, simply said that he won't be using Calibre because it lacked a feature he needs. Fair enough. I shouldn't be trying so hard to make him use an application any more than he should be trying to make the unpaid developer add a certain feature.

Now...seeing as Sony has just introduced some shiny new toys for us to talk about, I must excuse myself.

- Jim

[tompe]

Originally Posted by macr0t0r

Look guys, you can sort by any attribute and you can search by any attribute. Whatever your preference may be, it's unlikely you'd have a scenario where you could only find a book by browsing a specific directory structure. This is not a bug or missing feature, it's a preference. If you want it so badly, then you'll have to do more than just disagree with kovidgoyal, you have to HELP him.

Why do people think you want something just because you discus arguments and opinions? Kovid asked about a use case and I responded. He also had some arguments and opinions that I discussed. That is all.

[pshrynk]

My approach to this issue is that my books were soooo disorganized when I got Calibre, that I'm still not sure I got them all. So, any organization that puts them where I can find them is a major improvement. Since all I use to manipulate my books now is Calibre, the more esoteric aspects of this discussion don't apply to the user like me.

[ericshliao]

I tried using Calibre for once, but I seemed not getting used to its flat structure, so I stopped using it. I prefer tree structure not because tree structure is better than flat structure, but because I am used to tree struecture.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by ericshliao

I tried using Calibre for once, but I seemed not getting used to its flat structure, so I stopped using it. I prefer tree structure not because tree structure is better than flat structure, but because I am used to tree struecture.

Do you mean within the UI or in the file system?

BOb

[ericshliao]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Do you mean within the UI or in the file system?
BOb

Both.
I want to manage my ebook files in my own way. I don't want Calibre import my ebook files to some other directory because it will generate duplicate files. Besides, I want a ebook-manager which can display ebook titles with definable tree structure.
I am not saying that Calibre is not good. Every software has its own style and principle. I am just saying what I expect.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by ericshliao

I am not saying that Calibre is not good. Every software has its own style and principle. I am just saying what I expect.

I understand.

Originally Posted by ericshliao

Both.
I want to manage my ebook files in my own way. I don't want Calibre import my ebook files to some other directory because it will generate duplicate files. Besides, I want a ebook-manager which can display ebook titles with definable tree structure.

I would like to see calibre have a "Don't manage my files" option like iTunes has too... that would be cool. I think Kovid says that there will be a plug in db option so that should be pretty doable. The only question is, where would it output the books it converts? I guess in the same location as the original?

That said, I've gotten used to d/l to my download folder, import to calibre, delete from my d/l folder. Also, if I was doing ALOT of d/l-ing which I don't the Mac makes it very easy to automate this with folder actions. Also, I use a Mac tool called Hazel which would make this pretty easy to do.

Now we just need someone who cares enough and knows enough python to write it. The main reason I haven't done any coding with calibre is that I have never worked with python, although I am pretty sure I could learn it.

As far as the "flat" UI... I actually prefer the tag based organization UI, it is much more flexible than using folders... I have become well used to it using sites like gmail and delicious and apps like Evernote which use the tag/search metaphor rather than the organize in files metaphor. I find I much prefer it now to folder based systems.

BOb

[ericshliao]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I actually prefer the tag based organization UI, it is much more flexible than using folders... I have become well used to it using sites like gmail and delicious and apps like Evernote which use the tag/search metaphor rather than the organize in files metaphor. I find I much prefer it now to folder based systems.

In fact, tree structure is just one style of representation of data, not the internal implemenation. If Calibre uses XML (or similiar data structure), it will be easy to sort ebooks by certain tag, both in flat structure or in tree structure.

[jimbob101]

Originally Posted by tompe

But you might have to branch the project to include your solution.


And you are not contributing any to the project by just using it. Open source projects works because people do more than just use the program.

That is from an older post but i disagree. As a user you are encouraging the people who work on developing the program to keep going. Not everyone has the programming skills to change a program. But anyone with an ereader can actively use the program and encourage the programmer to keep going and hopefully donate to the developer.

[acidzebra]

I usually try to stay away from these file vs search discussions; everyone has his/her view and usually are pretty set in their ways. While I generally side with the Calibre dev on this issue (his party), I don't actually use Calibre to maintain my ebook library because I do prefer my own folder structure. I generally import a couple of books I want to have on the reader into Calibre, convert them to LRF/EPUB, delete the source formats from Calibre, and load the converted books onto the reader. So you could say I am slowly building a LRF/EPUB library next to my original one. I don't have much of an issue with this; disk space is cheap and plentiful.

Since Kovid asked for a use case, here is mine. This is the top-level folder of my library:

(please forgive the rather basic presentation, mc rocks in everything but looks)

This top-level organisation has been fairly static; I've had it (with only minor changes) since the early 90s (talk about being set in my ways, huh?). Below it you will generally find a second level of folders (this is an example from the 'Computer' top-level folder), these are generally more fluid and prone to change over time:



Finding a book is a matter of using a file manager to go into the top-level category and then a second-level category, then executing a search on a certain keyword (name, author, whatever), searching though an already vastly restricted subset of books, speeding up my search by a significant amount. The need for this becomes especially apparent when you consider the size of the top-level folders (again, collecting electronic text since the early 90s):


Searching through the entire collection takes quite a while! I could replicate all this in Calibre, replacing folder names with keywords/tags but the task seems rather daunting. In addition I don't know if Calibre could handle this amount of files, I once loaded some 11000 project Gutenberg files (the LRF torrent of which is still going strong, by the way) and while still usable, the performance hit was very noticeable.

[skally]

I have just been digging throught this thread as I have just ordered a Sony PRS 600 (awaiting anxiously) and I started looking for an Ebook library manager when I found Calibre. Generally Calibre does everything I want and more. Not to put down the author of Calibre as it is an excellent program, especially for free, but I have a number of issues with his comment:

"And I defy anyone to give me a single use case where having calibre support their pet folder structure is better."

Here is my view on the subject

1. People have different preferences. File structure is how I organise my computer and the structure I use is logical to me. I like to have software to assist in organisation, but I also like to know how to do things 'by hand'.

2. I also have multiple programs that use the same data. The option to use a common file structure makes this simpler. If every program reorganised or used a separate copy of that data, my system would be in a complete mess.

As an example, here is how my data folder is organised (I squashed it up a bit). I expect some people will find this horrible, but it works for me.

Applications +
Downloads +
Projects +
Media ->
AudioBooks -> [Fiction/NonFiction] -> Author -> <files>
Ebooks -> [Fiction/NonFiction] -> Author -> <files>
GuitarTabs -> Artist -> <files>
Movies
Music -> Artist -> Album -> <files>
TV Shows -> Show Name -> Season -> <files>
Work +

From this you can probably see they are all a variation on a theme. (Audio)Books initially separated Fiction/NonFiction (that seems logical to me), then by author. I may subivide that again if I feel the need and there is a logical, consistent way to do it (such as music being in artist/album format, TV being Show/Season).

3. From a technical standpoint, I have experience in writing software to trawl through directory structures. Once you have initially parsed the structure (using any arbirtary ruleset), reading files can really slow down if I have to change directory frequently (I am speaking of CAD/CAE datasets in the region of several hundred Gigabytes here).

My point here is that having every book in its own folder IS going to create an overhead. Conversely, having 10,000 files in one folder is not a good idea if you want to maually browse the file structure.

Despite this, I will be using Calibre for my ebook collection, I don't feel the need to boycot it and I have'nt found anything better. The featureset far outweighs any qurks and there are always workaraounds.

Hope to post more positively in the future, especially when I have recieved my PRS 600.

BTW, anybody know of any tools to convert guitar tab, chord/scale diagrams, other music notation files into Ebooks? I specifically prefer the epub format for my books and would like to convert plain text, guitar pro, power tab files for use on my reader. Maybe a Calibre stylesheet for plain text ones, an import plugin for the binary ones?

[Mholtmeier]

I just ordered the PRS-300, so I picked up Calibre to use as a management/conversion tool. So far so good, so I just wanted to say THANKS KOVID!

For users new to Calibre, don't get scared off by this thread. The program is very simple to use, just open your e-book (whatever file) and it will copy it to the Calibre library. From here it is very simple to convert the file into different types (.pdf to .epub, for example), and edit the metadata (image cover, title, author, etc.).

Unless you're a hardcore e-book collector and need to set up your own system you'll be fine. Also VERY helpful for folks new to collecting e-books.

[darkmonk]

*GASP!* Did Calibre just gain the ability to export your files any way you want? Seems to me like we can make a file structure with our books any way we want! My main, no only dissatisfaction with Calibre has just been eliminated! If I decide to return to a directory-based layout, I can! Kovid, thank you very much. Though there remain use cases where Calibre doesn't work well, for little old me who wants to be able to keep a single copy of his files, but still be able to take them out in my preferred directory structure, the problem is solved.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by darkmonk

*GASP!* Did Calibre just gain the ability to export your files any way you want? Seems to me like we can make a file structure with our books any way we want! My main, no only dissatisfaction with Calibre has just been eliminated! If I decide to return to a directory-based layout, I can! Kovid, thank you very much. Though there remain use cases where Calibre doesn't work well, for little old me who wants to be able to keep a single copy of his files, but still be able to take them out in my preferred directory structure, the problem is solved.

Then please go here and do this.....

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...t=55581&page=2