New forum section that's not the lounge - Page 10

RickyMaveety · 03-25-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

I don't have much of an opinion about starting up a separate forum for serious discussion. What I would like to see is the possibility of carrying on open, honest, even light hearted discussion without the hijacking into complete silliness that happens far too often to threads.

I generally think that the person who posted the thread, beginning the dialogue, in some way "owns" the thread. If that person starts bantering with other members and interjects the silliness into their own thread, that's fine. It is when other people who do not have such a vested interest in the thread's original topic start interjecting irrelevant humor into the thread that I start to get concerned (and tune out). It is disrespectful to the original poster and to the other people who are carrying on the dialogue. This seems to be a common trend these days. I think it could easily be curtailed if the people who are doing this refrained from posting their blather.

BTW Thanks to Nate for reopening this thread. I was quite disappointed and angry when it was closed so abruptly.

Interesting idea. Ownership of threads. Sounds like something for a sticky note. No going off post, ever. The original poster "owns" the thread, and anything (anything) that is off post is disrespectful ... and should be removed perhaps??

What a lovely way to run a public "forum" ... kudos to you for the idea. I'll do my level best to make certain I never wander into a thread you started. I would hate to be disrespectful to you by saying something that I thought was "light hearted" and you thought was "silly."

Moejoe · 03-25-2009, 02:11 AM

And so it was, on that fateful day in March of 2009 that the 'War on Silliness' began. Before too long the mere mention of Monty Python was grounds for banishment from the community. Banished too were the emoticons, darkened were their smiles and googly eyes, their happy flag wavings and proclamations of love and thank-you's. Those branded as OFF-TOPIC were made to sit in the 'Naughty' forum where they could not post anything or even read other forums. Soon all discussions were of a highly technical nature and anything that deviated from this path was instantly deleted from the memory of the community forever. But in those dark days a rebellion was born. A new hope shined in the bowels of the 'Lounge'....

-From the Diary of Major George Hummingbird Maffick (Mrs) 2010.

ProfJulie · 03-25-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I'll do my level best to make certain I never wander into a thread you started. I would hate to be disrespectful to you by saying something that I thought was "light hearted" and you thought was "silly."

That's fine with me....I doubt that any thread I'd start would be of interest to you anyway.

But did you miss the words "irrelevant humor" in my posting? Surely you know the difference between light hearted humor and irrelevant humor? ...and my "idea" of ownership is not so novel a concept....I moderate a couple of different forums and the idea of keeping a thread somewhat focused on the original poster's topic is how most forums operate. Sure. threads drift off topic from time to time, but that does not mean a thread should go completely off track.

Ea · 03-25-2009, 02:56 AM

Moejoe, that was funny

RickyMaveety, your latest posts have sounded a bit "prickly" and discontent and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think you are reading more into it than what was meant - I don't think you should worry so much.

How can I explain...? I'll try. I have thought of posting threads in The Lounge but have been afraid that in that place they would end up becoming "slow chat" threads with little actual topic content, much less than I would prefer myself. I am also not personally that comfortable in a place where there is a lot chat and social banter going on, like the Lounge - mainly because I find it hard to navigate the social rules - and the more 'loose' the social interaction, the more hidden the rules tend to be, and thus harder to navigate - I sometimes find it prohibitively hard to even try (in general, not just here). If it's more a *discussion* with focus on a topic, it's easier and I am much more inclined to participate.

And where am I going with all this? Well, I don't "hear" people saying that humour and fun is not allowed outside the Lounge or that there is a war on silliness. But I, and apparently others - for a variety of reasons(*), miss a place where the tone - from the outset - is more focused on discussing a topic than it is on social interaction. As it is, I see the Lounge as a place where one would go primarily for being social chat and talk, not discussion. I hope the way I distinguish between discussion and chat/talk is comprehensible?

As a newbie/ousider, the lounge is not a place I would immediately think of if I had a topic I wanted to *discuss* that wasn't really covered by the other forums. It's a certain place, with a certain tone and mode of interaction - and it's fine for what is - but it isn't a catch-all.

(*) edit: this is just my personal reason, no-one else's

Moejoe · 03-25-2009, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea

Moejoe, that was funny

RickyMaveety, your latest posts have sounded a bit "prickly" and discontent and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think you are reading more into it than what was meant - I don't think you should worry so much.

How can I explain...? I'll try. I have thought of posting threads in The Lounge but have been afraid that in that place they would end up becoming "slow chat" threads with little actual topic content, much less than I would prefer myself. I am also not personally that comfortable in a place where there is a lot chat and social banter going on, like the Lounge - mainly because I find it hard to navigate the social rules - and the more 'loose' the social interaction, the more hidden the rules tend to be, and thus harder to navigate - I sometimes find it prohibitively hard to even try (in general, not just here). If it's more a *discussion* with focus on a topic, it's easier and I am much more inclined to participate.

And where am I going with all this? Well, I don't "hear" people saying that humour and fun is not allowed outside the Lounge or that there is a war on silliness. But I, and apparently others, miss a place where the tone - from the outset - is more focused on discussing a topic than it is on social interaction. As it is, I see the Lounge as a place where one would go primarily for being social chat and talk, not discussion. I hope the way I distinguish between discussion and chat/talk is comprehensible?

As a newbie/ousider, the lounge is not a place I would immediately think of if I had a topic I wanted to *discuss* that wasn't really covered by the other forums. It's a certain place, with a certain tone and mode of interaction - and it's fine for what is - but it isn't a catch-all.

I think the idea that you can somehow reign in conversation is absurd. You might be able to force it into compliance, but any conversation is bound to take a turn away from the original question under discussion. It's just how we work as people, spring-boarding from one idea to the next. I was recently in a forum where the discussion of Stephen King's new novel turned into a discussion of celibacy and teenage morality (mostly my fault). But the discussion deepens with every twist and turn, with every funny quip or insult. If those lobbying for this 'more serious' sub-forum are serious then we may as well have it structured as we would in a debate, its the only sure-fire way to keep a topic on the straight and narrow. And then we're into ridiculous rules of conduct that kill spontaneity and the joy of conversing with others in a community. I want to be surprised by other people's opinions, I want to smile when someone says something silly or out of the blue, I want to engage in arguments about topics I care about also.

There are already places here fit for all those topics and also combined with each other. It would be a sad day indeed if we reduced this community into factions because of the percieved 'non-serious' nature of the Lounge. Already people here are getting annoyed and feeling attacked, on both sides, because of this ridiculous proposition.

The Lounge is fit for purpose and it serves that purpose well. If some users don't like the silly bits, don't read them, post 'serious' topics (I've done it in the past). Like the silly bits, then jump in and have some fun. The people here are friendly and fun-loving, for the most part, they won't mind

pshrynk · 03-25-2009, 09:34 AM

My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go.

It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk.

I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.

Lady Blue · 03-25-2009, 09:38 AM

What he said (and what I was trying to say earlier.)

kazbates · 03-25-2009, 10:09 AM

As another new member, I too have been intimidated by the Lounge forum. I don't understand many of the inside jokes either and feel much like the new kid at school - wanting to make connections but feeling as if I am intruding. Although, I will say that my feelings are based more on my own perceptions than by any interaction with the posters to MobileRead. For the most part, people have been friendly and welcoming no matter what subforum to which I am posting.

I came to MobileRead looking for information about my new reader and found a great place for lively discussions on topics near and dear to my heart. I generally read the topic of a thread and if it looks like something that would be interesting to me, I start reading. If I decide I have anything of value to contribute, I wade in to the stream. Occasionally these threads go off topic for a short while, but eventually return to the main reason for the posting. I have learned just as much from a thread when it goes off topic as I have with the original intent of the post. However, I get very frustrated when these threads get hijacked and degenerate into something else. When that happens, I just stop reading the thread. What that means is that if the thread does get back on topic, I will have missed information that may have been of value or interest to me.

I don't know whether a new sub-forum will help. I do feel that people who begin threads in the Lounge should do so with the understanding that it could degenerate into silliness. Consequently, perhaps a separate forum would keep that from happening, which I would grately appreciate. However, I think it all boils down to common courtesy. I have never been shy about posting my opinion, but I try to do it without insulting anyone and by being courteous to the other posters on that thread, many of whom are not there for the banter but are there to discuss a topic that they find interesting and of some value. If you have a tendency toward the absurd, that's great! Just be aware of whether or not it is appropriate to the discussion.

Kaz

kazbates · 03-25-2009, 10:15 AM

Oh, and I am also glad that this discussion was reopened. It felt a little like my parents telling me that we could no longer discuss a topic because they were tired of talking about it.

Of course, my own children have accused me of this at times, so I can understand the appeal.

Kaz

Greg Anos · 03-25-2009, 10:29 AM

What I think is needed may not be supportable with the current site software. I think there need to be an "Off-Topic" flag that can be set on a post, and the ability to select all posts on a thread or just ones either "on-topic" or "off-topic". That way serious people could just "not see" off-topic posts (when and if they occur.)

The poster would be responsible for setting the topic flag....

JSWolf · 03-25-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go.

It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk.

I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.

Yes, that is the perfect way to say it. That's what I meant. Just not said as well. Thank you.

pshrynk · 03-25-2009, 10:43 AM

I'd charge you $300 but that would be silly.

JSWolf · 03-25-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshrynk

I'd charge you $300 but that would be silly.

What would be sillier is when you get the money and find the only place it's usable is for playing Monopoly.

DixieGal · 03-25-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

What I think is needed may not be supportable with the current site software. I think there need to be an "Off-Topic" flag that can be set on a post, and the ability to select all posts on a thread or just ones either "on-topic" or "off-topic". That way serious people could just "not see" off-topic posts (when and if they occur.)

The poster would be responsible for setting the topic flag....

But that's the rub. It's hard enough to remember the "silliness" prefix, and I have not been able to figure out yet how to go back and add it after the fact.

pshrynk · 03-25-2009, 10:51 AM

I think that the initial "us v them" feeling of a new section would very quickly ear off. I know for certain that I would post in the On Topic Section as well as the Lounge. It's just my nature.

When the Writer's Corner was put up, there was some discussion about whether or not to "allow" silliness. That soon disappeared as the section developed a life of its own. There are now short stroies being created that are silly right alongside discussions about crafting stories and examples of poetry and "serious" stories with some dark bent to them.

As my Mom, the wisest woman I've ever met says, "Everything will work out for the best." Note that seh didn't say that it will work out the way you want it to...

03-25-2009, 02:56 AM	#139
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	Moejoe, that was funny RickyMaveety, your latest posts have sounded a bit "prickly" and discontent and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think you are reading more into it than what was meant - I don't think you should worry so much. How can I explain...? I'll try. I have thought of posting threads in The Lounge but have been afraid that in that place they would end up becoming "slow chat" threads with little actual topic content, much less than I would prefer myself. I am also not personally that comfortable in a place where there is a lot chat and social banter going on, like the Lounge - mainly because I find it hard to navigate the social rules - and the more 'loose' the social interaction, the more hidden the rules tend to be, and thus harder to navigate - I sometimes find it prohibitively hard to even try (in general, not just here). If it's more a discussion with focus on a topic, it's easier and I am much more inclined to participate. And where am I going with all this? Well, I don't "hear" people saying that humour and fun is not allowed outside the Lounge or that there is a war on silliness. But I, and apparently others - for a variety of reasons(), miss a place where the tone - from the outset - is more focused on discussing a topic than it is on social interaction. As it is, I see the Lounge as a place where one would go primarily for being social chat and talk, not discussion. I hope the way I distinguish between discussion and chat/talk is comprehensible? As a newbie/ousider, the lounge is not a place I would immediately think of if I had a topic I wanted to discuss* that wasn't really covered by the other forums. It's a certain place, with a certain tone and mode of interaction - and it's fine for what is - but it isn't a catch-all. () edit: this is just my personal reason, no-one else's Last edited by Ea; 03-25-2009 at 05:49 AM. Reason: added line*

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03-25-2009, 02:11 AM	#137
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	And so it was, on that fateful day in March of 2009 that the 'War on Silliness' began. Before too long the mere mention of Monty Python was grounds for banishment from the community. Banished too were the emoticons, darkened were their smiles and googly eyes, their happy flag wavings and proclamations of love and thank-you's. Those branded as OFF-TOPIC were made to sit in the 'Naughty' forum where they could not post anything or even read other forums. Soon all discussions were of a highly technical nature and anything that deviated from this path was instantly deleted from the memory of the community forever. But in those dark days a rebellion was born. A new hope shined in the bowels of the 'Lounge'.... -From the Diary of Major George Hummingbird Maffick (Mrs) 2010.

03-25-2009, 09:34 AM	#141
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go. It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk. I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.

03-25-2009, 09:38 AM	#142
Lady Blue the snarky blue one Posts: 6,001 Karma: 3877825 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: deep in the heart Device: PRS500, 505 & 600, PRST1 & T2, Kindle PW, Moto Razr, Galaxy Tab 2-10"	What he said (and what I was trying to say earlier.)

03-25-2009, 10:09 AM	#143
kazbates Wizard Posts: 2,627 Karma: 406616 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Northern Virginia Device: SurfacePro, SurfaceBook 2	As another new member, I too have been intimidated by the Lounge forum. I don't understand many of the inside jokes either and feel much like the new kid at school - wanting to make connections but feeling as if I am intruding. Although, I will say that my feelings are based more on my own perceptions than by any interaction with the posters to MobileRead. For the most part, people have been friendly and welcoming no matter what subforum to which I am posting. I came to MobileRead looking for information about my new reader and found a great place for lively discussions on topics near and dear to my heart. I generally read the topic of a thread and if it looks like something that would be interesting to me, I start reading. If I decide I have anything of value to contribute, I wade in to the stream. Occasionally these threads go off topic for a short while, but eventually return to the main reason for the posting. I have learned just as much from a thread when it goes off topic as I have with the original intent of the post. However, I get very frustrated when these threads get hijacked and degenerate into something else. When that happens, I just stop reading the thread. What that means is that if the thread does get back on topic, I will have missed information that may have been of value or interest to me. I don't know whether a new sub-forum will help. I do feel that people who begin threads in the Lounge should do so with the understanding that it could degenerate into silliness. Consequently, perhaps a separate forum would keep that from happening, which I would grately appreciate. However, I think it all boils down to common courtesy. I have never been shy about posting my opinion, but I try to do it without insulting anyone and by being courteous to the other posters on that thread, many of whom are not there for the banter but are there to discuss a topic that they find interesting and of some value. If you have a tendency toward the absurd, that's great! Just be aware of whether or not it is appropriate to the discussion. Kaz

03-25-2009, 10:15 AM	#144
kazbates Wizard Posts: 2,627 Karma: 406616 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Northern Virginia Device: SurfacePro, SurfaceBook 2	Oh, and I am also glad that this discussion was reopened. It felt a little like my parents telling me that we could no longer discuss a topic because they were tired of talking about it. Of course, my own children have accused me of this at times, so I can understand the appeal. Kaz

03-25-2009, 10:29 AM	#145
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,531 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	What I think is needed may not be supportable with the current site software. I think there need to be an "Off-Topic" flag that can be set on a post, and the ability to select all posts on a thread or just ones either "on-topic" or "off-topic". That way serious people could just "not see" off-topic posts (when and if they occur.) The poster would be responsible for setting the topic flag....

03-25-2009, 10:43 AM	#147
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	I'd charge you $300 but that would be silly.

03-25-2009, 10:51 AM	#150
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	I think that the initial "us v them" feeling of a new section would very quickly ear off. I know for certain that I would post in the On Topic Section as well as the Lounge. It's just my nature. When the Writer's Corner was put up, there was some discussion about whether or not to "allow" silliness. That soon disappeared as the section developed a life of its own. There are now short stroies being created that are silly right alongside discussions about crafting stories and examples of poetry and "serious" stories with some dark bent to them. As my Mom, the wisest woman I've ever met says, "Everything will work out for the best." Note that seh didn't say that it will work out the way you want it to...

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