The Dr. Seuss issue

[meeera]

Originally Posted by joblack

It's a book censorship and burning.

No, it's not. Did you read the thread, or anything about the issue, before commenting?

[joblack]

Originally Posted by meeera

No, it's not. Did you read the thread, or anything about the issue, before commenting?

Yes I have read it. It is pulled from other vendors and shops.

And if you look at the German Weimar Republic of the 20s as an analogy. It started by a 'softer' boycott ("Don't buy from jews."). The book burning only came at the end of the process.

[DiapDealer]

5 whole pages of discussion before a ridiculous Nazi analogy came up. Rationality has left the building.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by joblack

Yes I have read it. It is pulled from other vendors and shops.

No one has censored or burned it. The copyright holders have made a business decision not to reprint some books from their catalogue. The existing hardcopies in the world exist just as much as they did a couple of weeks ago.

If you don't like their decision, what is your proposed solution? And which other books that went out of print in the past year are you also up in arms about?

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Re the MobileReading aspect here:

You can buy used copies of some of these titles at Amazon, but there is no longer an eBook:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...oreType=ebooks

Interesting that Amazon continue to sell them, but ebay has banned them. I wonder what ebay's reason was, as Amazon does not appear to fear legal action or a woke backlash.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by hildea

Imagine yourself being a child of mostly Chinese descent, or a parent of Chinese descent reading for your child, and coming across that page. Can you seriously not see why the Seuss rights owners decided to stop reprinting it?

The image is an antique representation of a Chinese person with chop sticks. That is how many many Chinese people dressed in the past and the utensils they used. Does the image have some negative connotation in the USA that I am unaware as I do not live in that country?

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Interesting that Amazon continue to sell them, but ebay has banned them. I wonder what ebay's reason was, as Amazon does not appear to fear legal action or a woke backlash.

At least in the US, they don't need to fear any legal action for selling used paper books, as the author/publisher does not have any say in what happens after the first sale of the book. As to the fear of "woke backlash", I'm not sure they're afraid of that, either. I have no idea why ebay stopped selling the used copies.

Shari

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by shalym

At least in the US, they don't need to fear any legal action for selling used paper books, as the author/publisher does not have any say in what happens after the first sale of the book. As to the fear of "woke backlash", I'm not sure they're afraid of that, either. I have no idea why ebay stopped selling the used copies.

Shari

https://www.cbr.com/dr-seuss-banned-...delisted-ebay/

One seller who had sold a copy of one of the discontinued books received an e-mail from eBay pointing out that the site would not allow the book to be sold because of its "offensive materials policy," explaining that “Dr. Seuss Enterprises has stopped publication of this book due to its negative portrayal of some ethnicities.

I suppose ebay fears the wrath of the frothing "intellectuals" of the twittersphere and their easily outraged ilk. To characterize this as anything other than some form of censorship is disingenuous or an exercise in delusion. Whether one considers the censorship desirable or undesirable is a separate matter, but assuredly, it is censorship.

[DiapDealer]

Good lord. Speaking of frothing.

[Pajamaman]

Indeed

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by meeera

No one has censored or burned it. The copyright holders have made a business decision not to reprint some books from their catalogue. The existing hardcopies in the world exist just as much as they did a couple of weeks ago.

People who consider collectables an investment, to be locked away, have increased the price to where the average parent can't buy them. That's why the Seuss Enterprises action has been far more effective, at book suppression, than, for example, the thoroughly wrong effort to suppress Heather Has Two Mommies

As for libraries, if they do not withdraw these titles from circulation, they are at high risk of being stolen.

Originally Posted by meeera

If you don't like their decision, what is your proposed solution?

Moral suasion. Of course, it doesn't always work. That's why freedom to read is seriously limited in many countries.

I read banned and challenged authors. In the Seuss case, that might not apply for several reasons. One is that I don't use my grandchildren for what would feel like a political gesture. Another is that the Seuss books are going to be genuinely hard for middle class people to get. I did put a title, that Amazon withdrew for ideological reasons last month, on reserve at a public library.

Originally Posted by meeera

And which other books that went out of print in the past year are you also up in arms about?

issybird warned us, in #1, not to be up in arms

Very few books are dropped from both print and eBook releases for ideological reasons. Normally they go out of print when there is no eBook and print sales that approach zero. These books are most typically available used (see one of my favorite web sites, www.bookfinder.com) for a price much less than they sold for new. As a result, freedom to read is maintained.

For whatever reason, many of the books that are being challenged this year appeal to a different cliental than most of the titles that were challenged in past years. As a result, it seems like some of the people who were in favor of freedom to read, in past years, are up for making excuses about how, this year, making it hard to read a book isn't so bad -- and vice versa. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how this thread feels to me.

[DiapDealer]

“These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong,” Dr. Seuss Enterprises told The Associated Press in a statement that coincided with the late author and illustrator’s birthday.

“Ceasing sales of these books is only part of our commitment and our broader plan to ensure Dr. Seuss Enterprises’ catalog represents and supports all communities and families,” it said.

The decision to cease publication and sales of the books was made last year after months of discussion, the company told AP.

“Dr. Seuss Enterprises listened and took feedback from our audiences including teachers, academics and specialists in the field as part of our review process. We then worked with a panel of experts, including educators, to review our catalog of titles,” it said.

Until I learn differently, I'm going to take their words at face value.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Until I learn differently, I'm going to take their words at face value.

Well, if the decision came after months of discussions, that clearly indicates that it was not a simple business decision based on some poorly performing books as some have been suggesting. For "feedback" read public pressure.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

Well, if the decision came after months of discussions, that clearly indicates that it was not a simple business decision based on some poorly performing books as some have been suggesting. For "feedback" read public pressure.

It does nothing of the sort. The books in question were still bottom of the barrel earners regardless. They killed two birds with one stone. The Seuss Foundation was not a victim of anything. In fact, I think they've played everyone
just a bit. Dumped some dross. Generated good will. Created a Seuss buying frenzy.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

It does nothing of the sort. The books in question were still bottom of the barrel earners regardless. They killed two birds with one stone.

They may indeed have been poor earners. I'm not saying that they weren't. I'm saying that it was not the simple business decision that some have suggested it was.

Simple business decisions do not require "months of discussions" nor do they require listening to "feedback" from outside audiences, followed by consultations with "a panel of experts."